# Will ending "birthright citizenship" help to control America's borders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564 "2005-11-04T22:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/141 "2005-11-10T05:22:11Z")
So what? If you are born here, I would think naturalization would be automated ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/142 "2005-11-10T05:33:41Z")
Just a few numbers for comparison’s sake. Mexico has 55 people per square kilometer and America has 33 people per square kilometer. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/143 "2005-11-10T23:27:52Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > This thread is about an internal problem of the US. There are several around here that are trying lay the blame on poor government in Mexico. What about the inaction of the US government to correct their internal problem? > > Have they done anything effective to reduce the amount of people crossing the border other than placing physical barriers( fences and increased border patrol) in their paths? > > If it is such a large problem as some people around here would like everyone to believe then why don’t we see the US doing anything about it? Or is the American economy dependent upon exploitation of illegal workers? > > Why doesn’t the US punish the Americans that hire the illegals? Wouldn’t that go a long ways toward deterrent? What about removing the huge farm subsidies that contribute a great deal toward problems in the Mexican (and many other countries) countryside ? It is pretty hard to compete with artificially low agribusiness prices supported by billions of dollars US taxpayer welfare. Paragraph 1 - You are right, the U.S. has done little or nothing…and some of that in response to Fox’s begging and pleading to keep the status quo. Paragraph 2 - Anything that is or was effective has been termed “racist” or “abusive” even though that is not usually the case. Paragraph 3 - Again, we are caving in to Fox’s begging and pleading to continue the status quo. I would like to see the American economy dependent on legal citizens and legal immigrants. Paragraph 4 - Good question. As an employer myself in the social services field, I can’t hire illegals to work for me since I am required to fingerprint and have a DOJ background check on each prospective employees. I would like to see penalties for any employer hiring illegals which would curtail the issue, but not necessarily eliminate it, since many jobs that are worked by illegals are paid under the table, so the employer can also save by not paying employment taxes. That is a tougher nut to crack and will require more manpower to fix. But that should be done with any employer who is currently doing that now…with illegals or not. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/144 "2005-11-10T23:29:16Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Oh and one other thing YR. I am under the impression that personal attacks are limited to The Pit. Yes, you are right…calling me a racist is a personal attack, especially when I am not one. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/145 "2005-11-10T23:51:30Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > But let me jump in to say that, however scandalous **Yeticus** ’s comments may seem, he **has** touched on a problem. It is **not** a one-nation problem; just as Canada may rightly criticize the U.S. for actions that impact negatively on them (timber import restrictions, anyone?), so the U.S. can rightly criticize Mexico for not dealing with their own problems. > . > . > . > I don’t think you solve that by the absurdist notion of taking over Mexico or even some variant on “gunboat diplomacy,” but it’s definitely worth noting that the cause of the extensive immigration is not in U.S. policy but in Mexican. To everyone, for the record: When **Aeschines** posted about annexation, it triggered a recollection that I had written a paper quite a long time ago, long enough to forget about it for over 20 years. I had mentioned this paper one other time in another thread either last year or earlier this year. I didn’t take the content of my paper seriously back then, and I still don’t hold that notion of annexing Mexico now. Dammit, it was writing a provacative paper for a grade in an English class! I don’t remember any details of that paper, but I believe I used (for my paper) the notion that since a majority of Mexicans wanted to be in the U.S., that they would agree to be annexed, not conquered by force. What the hell did I know back then…I was 19 or 20! What I did write was what the U.S. would do to get Mexico to produce revenue and jobs to keep the Mexican population productive, happy and prosperous; not poor and fleeing the country to look elsewhere for it…that’s when I realized that the initial problems were with the Mexican government and market, and the U.S. are just the enablers by letting them come here illegally. Again, does this make me a racist? NO. It makes me a 19-20 year old with his head up his butt dreaming lofty dreams. More than half a lifetime ago. Ok, does that set the record straight? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/146 "2005-11-11T00:16:52Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > In simplistic terms it is a matter of supply and demand. The US demands low wage workers, Mexico supplies them. Where does this put the onus solely on Mexico? If the US was serious about curtailing illegal immigration why don’t they sanction the people hiring them? Would they continue to cross the border if they couldn’t find work? > > In the history of US immigration policy, the US industrialists have used low wage immigrant workers as leverage against paying higher wages to native workers. Is it a coincidence that trade unionism membership is inversely proportional to immigration rates? > > Economic conditions in Mexico create a sizable amount of people willing to fill the need in the US for low wage workers but political conditions in the US create the opportunities. If the American people don’t want the illegal aliens in their country then they should pressure their own politicians to do something about it. But I doubt there is enough support for highly restrictive measures amongst the powers that be and whether the American public is willing to accept the consequences of a strict clamp down. Again, you feel it is our responsibility to react to the problem, rather than Mexico’s responsibility to address it’s own internal problems before it becomes the U.S.'s problems. I agree we should not hire illegals to work here by penalizing the employers, but unless Mexico doesn’t address their own problems, then it’s not going to fully address the WHOLE problem. I would like to see more companies here outsource to Mexico to employ her people…and raise the standard of living there [and of course, the US trade unions will complain about that too]…but I believe the government of Mexico is too restrictive since oligopoly reigns supreme there. Now let me ask you some questions… Why would the Mexican government, who has the power to make internal changes in their government and market, would let their people leave unhindered to seek work elsewhere when they themselves could import companies from abroad to increase their employment rate? Why won’t the Mexican government set minimum wages for all jobs created by both oligopoly companies and imported companies to create a level playing field between themselves and still attract other companies to do business with to boost their GDP? I don’t know much of anything about the Mexican education system, but is the government investing heavily into their children to bring them up to par with the other children from other companies? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/147 "2005-11-12T03:27:00Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Again, you feel it is our responsibility to react to the problem, rather than Mexico’s responsibility to address it’s own internal problems before it becomes the U.S.'s problems. Hey you are the ones with the problem. It’s up to you to find the solution. To me this is like the whiney US attitude on illegal drugs. You always try to blame the supplier. Demand drives supply, not vice versa. No demand, no supply. > [@](#): > > . > > Now let me ask you some questions… > > Why would the Mexican government, who has the power to make internal changes in their government and market, would let their people leave unhindered to seek work elsewhere when they themselves could import companies from abroad to increase their employment rate? The Mexican government is probably no more beholden to special interests than the US. At least here a spade is called a spade. To me the special interest lobbies, PACs etc are just legalized forms of bribery. Mexicans enjoy basic freedoms the same as you do in the USA. The government doesn’t have the right to “hinder” it’s citizens freedom of movement. And the government isn’t in the “import” business. There have been many big changes in foreign investment laws aimed at _encouraging_ foreign businesses to set up in the country. > [@](#): > > Why won’t the Mexican government set minimum wages for all jobs created by both oligopoly companies and imported companies to create a level playing field between themselves and still attract other companies to do business with to boost their GDP? As far as I know the federal minumum wage doesn’t differentiate between domestic and foreign employers, If you know different, please point it out. > [@](#): > > I don’t know much of anything about the Mexican education system, but is the government investing heavily into their children to bring them up to par with the other children from other companies? The education system here is openly debated just like in any other country. There are people here that find it lacking just as some Americans, French or Japanese probably criticize their systems too. The government doesn’t have the resource base that developed countris enjoy so I don’t think it is fair to expect the same level of expenditures per pupil. But you can recieve a free college education in Mexico. I have two nephews in the U. de Guadalajara med school at this moment. They pay no tuition. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/148 "2005-11-13T06:40:40Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Hey you are the ones with the problem. It’s up to you to find the solution. To me this is like the whiney US attitude on illegal drugs. You always try to blame the supplier. Demand drives supply, not vice versa. No demand, no supply. You keep forgetting the notion that Fox is publicly begging the U.S. to keep the status quo on a regular basis, yet I do not see drug cartels or leaders of countries publicly begging us to keep the status quo on the flow of drugs into our country, let alone the U.S. giving in to their begging to keep the drugs flowing. That’s not a valid comparison, let alone a valid argument. > [@](#): > > The Mexican government is probably no more beholden to special interests than the US. At least here a spade is called a spade. To me the special interest lobbies, PACs etc are just legalized forms of bribery. Agreed. > [@](#): > > Mexicans enjoy basic freedoms the same as you do in the USA. The government doesn’t have the right to “hinder” it’s citizens freedom of movement. And the government isn’t in the “import” business. There have been many big changes in foreign investment laws aimed at _encouraging_ foreign businesses to set up in the country. Glad to hear it. Closing the gap in the standard of living should always be the goal of the Mexican government. I did mean that Mexico should try to “import businesses” (like you said), not get into the “import business”. Hindering movement inside their countries is not what I meant; moving OUTSIDE of the country illegally is something that the Mexican government can control if they chose to do so. > [@](#): > > As far as I know the federal minumum wage doesn’t differentiate between domestic and foreign employers, If you know different, please point it out. I’ll go by your word on that one. I was actually thinking that the Mexican government could work towards gradually raising their minimum wage to catch up with ours, but only if they can attract businesses who are willing to see this happen over the years. > [@](#): > > The education system here is openly debated just like in any other country. There are people here that find it lacking just as some Americans, French or Japanese probably criticize their systems too. The government doesn’t have the resource base that developed countris enjoy so I don’t think it is fair to expect the same level of expenditures per pupil. But you can recieve a free college education in Mexico. I have two nephews in the U. de Guadalajara med school at this moment. They pay no tuition. That’s cool. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564/149 "2005-11-13T12:16:39Z")
I have an observation. I have first hand knowledge about how “Anchor Babies” come to be. The mom waits until labor is well along before crossing the border. That way INS can’t just take her back, because she (and her child) have become a medical emergency. Often she squeezes into the tightest pair of pants she can, to keep the baby in. Preventing an emminent delivery will cause hypoxemia in the baby, leading to Cerebral Palsy, seizure disorders, retardation or death. These mothers are so desperate for their baby to have a better life, they, ironicly, risk that same life in the process. I’m done. Carry on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ending-birthright-citizenship-help-to-control-americas-borders/329564.md?page=7)