# Will Fallujah Be A STALINGRAD? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-fallujah-be-a-stalingrad/241704 "2004-04-23T21:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-fallujah-be-a-stalingrad/241704/41 "2004-04-25T04:41:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Repeating this. I never said it would be, At least in numbers. It is in that at the moment, it’s a siege. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-fallujah-be-a-stalingrad/241704/42 "2004-04-25T16:19:20Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Yes, really, a week or two ago. Then this past week we started letting them back in, but not in large numbers. Many of them are hanging out in Baghdad, about which you can read more [here](http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/). The original reference to telling “innocents” to leave dealt with minimizing civilian casualties. The idea of evacuating enough “innocents” from a city of 300000 to make much of a dent in civilian casualties, when using the “heavier firepower” that was mentioned in the post containing this argument, is sort of silly. I don’t know whether or not the Fallouja thing will become a symbolic “Stalingrad.” _I.e._ a place where the result will cause the US public to realize that the Iraq adventure isn’t going well. However, as has been pointed out, the scale of the action is such that it isn’t likely. The repots I read say that there is about 1 regiment of Marines, some 3000 people, “surrounding” Fallouja. The current estimates of active enemy strength are about 2000. That isn’t much of an edge for an attacking force, but that sized action probably isn’t something that the US public will call crucial in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-fallujah-be-a-stalingrad/241704/43 "2004-04-25T18:59:21Z")
In breaking news, the US military at Fallujah appears to be backing off the supposed imminent attack. > [@](#): > > “The end state is what we need to be focused on. If it can be achieved through a political track, that’s always good,” Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the coalition deputy director of operations, told a news conference. “I think we are going to show some combat patience and see if we can deliver this on a political track.” [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40951-2004Apr25.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40951-2004Apr25.html) I am beginning to wonder if we really have enough troops around Fallujah to do the job, or at least enough “boots on the ground” to get the job done. Fallujah is a large city, reported to have a population of 300K or so. Can the 3,000 marines “take out” the 1,500-2,000 Iraqis opposing us, without causing major “collateral damage”? Yeah, we can call in artillery, helicopter gunships and even B-2 bombers if needs be- but didn’t major combat operations in Iraq end almost a year ago? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-fallujah-be-a-stalingrad/241704/44 "2004-04-25T19:36:45Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > In breaking news, the US military at Fallujah appears to be backing off the supposed imminent attack. I think the main thing stopping the US forces is that Fallujah can be taken only with a bloodbath and that would mean a _huge_ setback for the US because it would turn more Iraqis and more countries against the USA. Neither the Iraqis nor the world recognise the USA _any_ right to control Fallujah, even if it were done peacefully, but if it has to be done with a bath of innocent Iraqi blood then there will be outrage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-fallujah-be-a-stalingrad/241704.md?page=2)