# Will gay acceptance erode the Bible's authority? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 27, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414 "2014-02-27T14:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/101 "2014-02-28T20:08:53Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > That section of the bible is definitely something I want to model my laws around. Oh, I’m quite familiar with Levitical law, believe me. I just want people who cite it to do so clearly. > [@](#): > > Also, while we’re at it, visiting a fortune teller or having sex with a woman during her period both require shunning. AFAIC, anyone who visits a fortune teller except to point and laugh deserves to be shunned. But I’m kind of a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/102 "2014-02-28T21:39:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Which is a bit confusing when added to all the scriptural requirements for liturgical offices, since they include a requirement to have only one wife, hence implying that having more than one was not uncommon. > > I guess you could interpret that as a requirement to be married, but then that would seem to contradict Paul’s idea that it’s better to remain unmarried if you can. I think that’s most likely a prohibition on clergy being _remarried_. For example, to be an Eastern Orthodox priest today, you can’t be remarried (whether your first marriage ended as a result of divorce or death). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/103 "2014-02-28T21:44:28Z")
Well, according to one street preacher I heard, the bible really never had anything against lesbians. And while the whole gay thing will be tougher to digest than the “women can’t ride horses during their period” thing, its probably no more harmful than the prevalence of contraception, pre-marital sex, and not giving a shit about the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/104 "2014-02-28T22:12:23Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, according to one street preacher I heard, the bible really never had anything against lesbians. And while the whole gay thing will be tougher to digest than the “women can’t ride horses during their period” thing, its probably no more harmful than the prevalence of contraception, pre-marital sex, and not giving a shit about the poor. There’s nothing in the bible about contraception. I wouldn’t be shocked about the horse-riding thing but I don’t recall it. But giving a shit about the poor is way, way up there in the bible’s priorities. ETA: I forgot to add, I think the guy was right about lesbians too. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/105 "2014-02-28T22:39:07Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In no era have mainstream Christians preached or followed the dietary laws of the Old Testament, since the New Testament has clear position on them–see [ch. 7 of the Gospel of Mark](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%207&version=MSG), among others. I love this edition of the Bible. Jesus said, “No way, dude! What were you thinking, man?” 🙂 > [@Skammer](#): > > There’s nothing in the bible about contraception. I’ve always assumed that the Catholic position on this is related to all the admonitions against wasting one’s seed. I heard that plenty of times as a mere Presbyterian. That and advice against building a house on sand. That last bit is good advice, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/106 "2014-03-01T01:42:02Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > There’s nothing in the bible about contraception. I wouldn’t be shocked about the horse-riding thing but I don’t recall it. > > But giving a shit about the poor is way, way up there in the bible’s priorities. > > ETA: I forgot to add, I think the guy was right about lesbians too. There’s nothing in the Bible about contraception. The Catholic condemnation of contraception, today, is based on consistent church tradition and on natural law theory (specifically, on the natural law tradition as developed by Aquinas and his followers). That being said, however, the early fathers of the Catholic and Orthodox churches did, as far as we can tell, condemn contraception as strongly as they condemned homosexuality (in fact, they considered both of those a subset of the same sin, ‘unnatural sex’.) The prohibition against homosexuality was based on the idea that it frustrates the natural end of sex, _which applies equally to contraception_. (Or at least to certain forms of contraception, like condoms). A lot of thoughtful people have made the observation, ever since 1960, that if you permit barrier contraception, then you don’t have any particularly strong grounds left to condemn homosexuality. The philosopher Elizabeth Anscombe, famously, made that point as part of her argument against contraception. (Besides ‘the Bible says so’, which is not an especially strong argument). I think the Catholic position, which condemns _both_ homosexuality _and_ contraception, is at least coherent and consistent, whether or not you agree with it. The evangelical Protestant position, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/107 "2014-03-02T14:44:31Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > There’s nothing in the bible about contraception. I wouldn’t be shocked about the horse-riding thing but I don’t recall it. > > But giving a shit about the poor is way, way up there in the bible’s priorities. > > ETA: I forgot to add, I think the guy was right about lesbians too. Gay marriage is legal in 6 USA states. Having sex with a horse is legal in 23! Does the bible endorse horse sex too? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/108 "2014-03-02T21:30:41Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > There’s nothing in the Bible about contraception. The Catholic condemnation of contraception, today, is based on consistent church tradition and on natural law theory (specifically, on the natural law tradition as developed by Aquinas and his followers). > . According to Talmud scholars everywhere, the Bible forbids contraception. OTTOMH G-d said “Be fruitful and multiply”. If you use contraception, you’re actively disobeying this command. You’re not supposed to waste seed. This includes not only a ban on condoms, but a command that all sex must end in ejaculation in the vagina. You’re wife can perform fellatio as foreplay. But, you can only yeehaw in the hoohah. You may recall occasional stories about Orthodox Jewish workers refusing to sell condoms. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/109 "2014-03-02T22:03:25Z")
That’s what being a Protestant’s all about. That’s why it’s the church for me. That’s why it’s the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual’s right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in fifteen- seventeen, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing, but four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/110 "2014-03-02T22:44:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But honoring the Sabbath isn’t from Leviticus - it’s from Exodus. In fact, it’s one of the Ten Commandments. I knew it was originally in the Ten Commandments, but Leviticus has always struck me as being such a micro-managing document, that I couldn’t believe that Sabbath-honoring wasn’t addressed: > [@Leviticus 23:3](#): > > ‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/111 "2014-03-02T22:50:28Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > According to Talmud scholars everywhere, the Bible forbids contraception. OTTOMH > > G-d said “Be fruitful and multiply”. If you use contraception, you’re actively disobeying this command. > > You’re not supposed to waste seed. This includes not only a ban on condoms, but a command that all sex must end in ejaculation in the vagina. You’re wife can perform fellatio as foreplay. But, you can only yeehaw in the hoohah. > > You may recall occasional stories about Orthodox Jewish workers refusing to sell condoms. Fair enough, maybe the Orthodox Jewish exegesis of the Old Testament forbids contraception. Christians who oppose contraception, in my experience, generally ground their arguments on natural law and tradition rather than the Old Testament. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/112 "2014-03-03T00:03:28Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Fair enough, maybe the Orthodox Jewish exegesis of the Old Testament forbids contraception. Christians who oppose contraception, in my experience, generally ground their arguments on natural law and tradition rather than the Old Testament. The ‘full quiver’ movement falls back on the be fruitful bit. Some also take the story of Onan as being against contraception, though I find that a pretty big stretch. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/113 "2014-03-03T00:53:18Z")
How about stoning rebellious sons to death–among many others? What intrigues me is how many believers will say, “Well, that Biblical law no longer applies,” yet they’re willing to accept a whole lot of other laws. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/114 "2014-03-03T06:26:43Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > That’s what being a Protestant’s all about. That’s why it’s the church for me. That’s why it’s the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual’s right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in fifteen- seventeen, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing, but four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas In fact, I could wear a French tickler! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/115 "2014-03-03T06:31:21Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > There’s nothing in the bible about contraception. I wouldn’t be shocked about the horse-riding thing but I don’t recall it. > > But giving a shit about the poor is way, way up there in the bible’s priorities. > > ETA: I forgot to add, I think the guy was right about lesbians too. Depends how you interpret Romans 1:26-27, if it condemns “men burning with lust for each other & the women likewise, leaving behind their natural use…” I think it’s fair to interpret that as against female same-sex activity. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/116 "2014-03-03T07:06:15Z")
Here’s my (liberal Christian) take on the subject. The laws in the Old Testament were laws put in place for that particular civilization at that particular time. I believe God looked at the Israelite people, saw that homosexual sex was quite prevalent, and forbade it because it was _so_ prevalent that they ran the risk of not having enough children. By reserving sex for procreation, it gave the Israelites the mandate to “be fruitful and multiply”. Put another way: If a parent says, “Don’t stick your head out the window of the school bus; if you hit a sign, it’ll knock off your head,” it’s a much more vivid image than “You’ll get a concussion”. “You’ll get a concussion” is more accurate, but by telling that little white lie, you make it less likely for your child to repeat that behavior. Nowadays? There are 7 billion people in the world. And it could easily be argued that that’s _way_ too many. How could anyone possibly have a problem with non-procreative sex? It just boggles my mind. Something else that bothers me is the belief that gay couples shouldn’t be allowed to adopt children. So you’re saying a child is better off with no parents at all, than with two fathers or two mothers? Really?! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/117 "2014-03-03T12:12:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How about working on the Sabbath? Because that’s a much, MUCH bigger issue in the Bible than homosexuality, which I believe is mentioned just once. I would add divorcing and remarrying and a lot of other sins that are overlooked! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/118 "2014-03-03T12:16:30Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Colossians 3:22-24 (New International Version) > > 22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Notice that is the words of Paul, not God! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/119 "2014-03-03T12:22:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Covered in post #12. > > Of course, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality either. This also raises the question of John’s statement when he called himself the Man Jesus loved !Now days that could be translated that John and Jesus were gay, because he wrote like the love Jesus had for him was different than the other Apostles! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414/120 "2014-03-03T12:36:13Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > One thing that is clearly happening is the Christian indoctrination that has said for so long that gays are somehow sick, perverted, and sinners is being changed. I think that will aide in slowly changing some people’s minds about the Bible having some authority. Ad to that the readily available knowledge about the history of the Bible. > > I hope that more people will realize that the Bible can be a tool for study and thought, but ultimately they must take responsibility for their own choices and attitudes and can and should use their own hearts and minds to decide what is right. This also follows the quote of Jesus when he was said , “Scripture is good for teaching”,never called it the words of his father. he also used " it says In your law (John 10 ) I said you are gods" didn’t seem to think Scripture was God’s word. A matter of what one believes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gay-acceptance-erode-the-bibles-authority/682414.md?page=7)