# Will Gold Matter in the Post-apocalypse? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 1, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115 "2019-10-01T21:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/81 "2019-10-03T01:47:02Z")
Lighters are damned convenient but there are thousands of survival manuals and videos out there about primitive firestarting; people will get by. Heck, a ferrorod can last for thousands of strikes. Or how about a solid-state electric lighter with a plug in solar panel for recharging? That could potentially last a lifetime. I remember reading a long survival blog about someone who’d lived through the Bosnian War. His advice on what was most valuable in the absence of civilization? He said (1.) guns and ammunition; and (2.) everything else. He did admit that firestarters and alcohol were at the top of list 2. He’d managed to “salvage” some inventory from a liquor store at the very start, and figured out how to use a full propane tank he was lucky enough to have to refill lighters. Unless you’re expecting the world to regress to 18th century levels, black powder isn’t that great. In fact except for historical reeenactors, even muzzleloading aficionados prefer to muzzle load solid propellant slugs similar to model rocket engines. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/82 "2019-10-03T02:09:51Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > As an aside (not a hijack), what WOULD be a good thing to have for trading when it all goes to Hell? Posters have suggested, ammunition, antibiotics, liquor, food, etc. I would think that, ideally, you would want something that is relatively cheap to purchase now, that would be more difficult to obtain after the Apocalypse, that would be useful and valued, that would be either easy to transport (to permit you to carry/conceal it) or very hard (to deter theft), and that would last for a long time without maintenance or replacement. Needles, razor blades, and syringes would probably all be useful trade goods. You could build up a good stockpile now for fairly little money (although there might be laws about stockpiling syringes). And they’re the kind of thing that would be useful after a social collapse but difficult to manufacture. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/83 "2019-10-03T02:11:21Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > This was all in Mad Max, wasn’t it? Non-radioactive water, gasoline, sacks of grain, ammo, livestock, slaves… You might want to hold off on stockpiling slaves until after the collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/84 "2019-10-03T02:39:10Z")
As to good trade items: in a significant collapse of trade and distribution, coffee comes to mind. 75 years ago cigarettes would’ve made good trade, but not so much anymore. Painkillers. Antihistamines. Anti-diarrheal medicine. Good boots. Inoculations against childhood diseases and anything else which can save children’s lives. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/85 "2019-10-03T03:09:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Needles, razor blades, and syringes would probably all be useful trade goods. You could build up a good stockpile now for fairly little money (although there might be laws about stockpiling syringes). And they’re the kind of thing that would be useful after a social collapse but difficult to manufacture. > [@Isosleepy](#): > > As to good trade items: in a significant collapse of trade and distribution, coffee comes to mind. 75 years ago cigarettes would’ve made good trade, but not so much anymore. Painkillers. Antihistamines. Anti-diarrheal medicine. Good boots. Inoculations against childhood diseases and anything else which can save children’s lives. I’d add matches. They keep for a really long time if stored dry. I bet they keep better than flimy plastic lighters. And they are really easy to use. Thread, to go with those needles. It’s nice to have fine strong thread to mend things. Get some little fabric needles, some big upholstery needles, and some curved surgical needles. Antibiotics along with those other drugs. Heck, some drugs, like insulin, don’t keep well, but some, like most opioids, keep essentially forever. Lots keep well enough to be worth stockpiling. > **[The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-myth-of-drug-expiration-dates)** > > Hospitals and pharmacies are required to toss expired drugs, no matter how expensive or vital. Meanwhile the FDA has long known that many remain safe and potent for years longer. I don’t think it’s all that hard to grow opium poppies, either, although the amount of opium per poppy isn’t all that much. But that gives you both a painkiller and an antidiarrheal right there. Maybe an old-fashioned pressure cooker? Sterilizing those needles before you sew up wounds is good practice, and a pressure cooker makes a decent autoclave. Tea keeps better than coffee. You can’t quite grow it in my climate, but you can in most of the continental US. Maybe plant some? ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/86 "2019-10-03T05:04:48Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Gold has value in Venezuela because you can stick it up your ass, walk to Bolivia and buy things with it. You may want to check the geography here. From Venezuela to Bolivia it’s at least 600 miles, across the thick Amazon rain forest of Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/87 "2019-10-03T10:33:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Gold still makes AWESOME false teeth. It’s much tougher and less brittle than the other options. I got gold so I can still crack nuts and bones with my teeth, not as currency. Sounds like the alloy you got barely has enough gold to be gold-colored. Try that with 24-karat and you’d just get smooshed teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/88 "2019-10-03T12:06:31Z")
Gold is an element tailor made to be a medium of exchange. It’s stability, workability and density make it a substance that will hold its value, be easy to use, and hard to fake. Now, a medium of exchange depends on people wanting to exchange things. If you’re in a society that doesn’t have a trade economy, gold is worthless. Immediately post apocalypse, gold is worthless. That’s a time of hoarding, not trade. If you do have a trade economy, gold (or silver) is better than ammunition or whiskey or food. A medium of exchange is how you get food from someone who doesn’t own a gun that your ammunition fits, or already has more ammunition than they could conceivably need, or would rather have the whiskey that you don’t currently have to trade. Post post-apocalypse, when humans are getting settled back into a bit of society, gold will be traded. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/89 "2019-10-03T12:34:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The problem with gold is that most of us have little experience with it. If someone hands you a coin and tells you it’s a 24k one-ounce gold coin, how are you going to know that it’s not just gold-plated Bite it. If it doesn’t leave much of a dent, it’s gold. If it doesn’t leave any dent at all, or it leaves an actual bite mark, it’s only gold-ish. If you can bite half of it off, it’s chocolate. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/90 "2019-10-03T12:36:40Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > You may want to check the geography here. From Venezuela to Bolivia it’s at least 600 miles, across the thick Amazon rain forest of Brazil. I understand that most if not all of those fleeing Venezuela are crossing into Brazil and Colombia. You may be missing my larger point: for gold to work, there needs to be the possibility to exchange it in a largely functioning society- even if that society is somewhat remote. Also, literally walking with gold up your ass is likely profoundly uncomfortable, and probably best reserved for very short walks. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/91 "2019-10-03T12:43:18Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Maybe being a miller and having a mill to process grains would be desirable? I don’t know. That’s only useful if you have a large community of grain-producing farmers who all want to bake bread in large quantities. For a lonesome cowboy dealing with their pissant harvest, a big mortar & pestle is more than enough. > [@Isosleepy](#): > > Also, literally walking with gold up your ass is likely profoundly uncomfortable, and probably best reserved for very short walks. I’ve been assured you can keep a gold watch up there for years ! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/92 "2019-10-03T12:52:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I strongly suspect this guy’s claim was bullshit. A hundred pounds of gold is a huge amount; over two million dollars worth in current prices. And just a few years back it would have been worth over five million. > > And this guy was telling enough people about his gold stash that you heard about it? If it had existed, somebody would have robbed him by now. First, this was around 1985 so… (Looking up gold prices then and doing some quick math) it was around $400,000 then, a stretch but doable. Second, I had the impression the stash was not in his home but elsewhere. Short of holding him hostage and beating the hiding place out of him, how is he going to be robbed? Third, you’re missing the point. If civilization collapses to the point of being a barter economy, trade goods are what you want, not a medium of exchange. Think of the post as a parable, if you like. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I know how to make potassium nitrate. Never had to, I had access to some. The gunpowder formula is simple, but the process of making something more than just fireworks quality is tough. In the Aubrey/Maturin series, Aubrey wanted his crew to be expert gunners when the time came. The Admiralty allotted a paltry amount of gunpowder for training but, like [Cochrane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cochrane), the real-life admiral Aubrey was patterned after, he paid for much more out of his own pocket. He was always looking for a bargain and was very happy when he picked up a ton or two for less than a quarter of the usual price. It turned out to be fireworks gunpowder and the gun flashes were awesomely red, green, or yellow depending on which barrel had been tapped, much to the crew’s delight. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/93 "2019-10-03T12:54:27Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Sounds like the alloy you got barely has enough gold to be gold-colored. Try that with 24-karat and you’d just get smooshed teeth. Yeah, it’s obviously some alloy – the point was to have a long-lasting, sturdy tooth, not to carry money in my mouth. That being said, a quick google says that dental work can run anywhere from 10 to 20 karats. > **[WHAT IS THE VALUE OF YOUR DENTAL GOLD?](https://medium.com/@allwastematters/what-is-the-value-of-your-dental-gold-d2cc187f1123)** > > If you run a dental practice or a dental laboratory and you are not selling your scrap precious metals, you may be missing out on some… (and lots of other sites.) Even 10 karats is a significant amount of gold, and it’s not crazy to refer to it as “gold”. I’d guess they are 14K, because they feels similar to a 14K ring I own, and seem slightly less prone to scratching than an 18K ring. (one is harder than the others, though. Different dentist.) That being said, I assume the malleability and chemical stability of gold both make it suitable for dental work. I wouldn’t want chunks of steel in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/94 "2019-10-03T12:59:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > \ Making potassium nitrate in quantity would be a tedious process also. Snip mine Yes it would be, not to mention unnecessary, considering it’s readily available for purchase. BTW: Ever considered the old school alternative to the bench method? I have, and did. It was disgusting. Barring the apocalypse, never again. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/95 "2019-10-03T13:04:19Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Gold will remain valuable for ornamentation. It’s soft enough to work with fairly basic tools, and it’s shiny and doesn’t tarnish. Of course, ornamentation is a luxury item, so it gets more valuable as civilization regrows. But as I pointed out, the amount of gold desired by the few people who want it for ornamentation is a tiny fraction of the total gold that will be around. So they will have virtually no influence on its value. Regarding touchstones: Very useful in some circumstances. But to be part of a gold or silver trade economy a lot of people have to have them, know how to use them, etc. That will take a while. Plus they are limited to a quick and dirty assay of the outer part. That link from a gold chain? Difficult to properly assay in most situations. Regarding “value”. Right now, a silver US quarter is worth about 4lbs of flour. When the stuff hits the fan, you would be lucky to get 1lb for a silver quarter. A better investment instead of that quarter is … a sack of flour. Well, okay you’ll have to rotate it out like the Mormons do with their food stash. But similar analysis applies to longer lasting staples. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/96 "2019-10-03T13:46:12Z")
Again, it depends what scenario you are guarding against. Apocalypse and collapse of every society on earth? Yeah, invest in food, medicine, and bullets. Financial collapse of the US economy? (say, runaway inflation) Gold and silver will likely be useful. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/97 "2019-10-03T13:46:51Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > But as I pointed out, the amount of gold desired by the few people who want it for ornamentation is a tiny fraction of the total gold that will be around. So they will have virtually no influence on its value. last I read, of all of the mined gold in existence, ~50% is bullion sitting in vaults, ~40% is jewelry, and the last ~10% is used for actual practical purposes. I don’t think 40% is a “tiny fraction.” Unless I’m misinterpreting you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/98 "2019-10-03T13:49:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Needles, razor blades, and syringes would probably all be useful trade goods. You could build up a good stockpile now for fairly little money (although there might be laws about stockpiling syringes). And they’re the kind of thing that would be useful after a social collapse but difficult to manufacture. I’d stockpile fairly stable, easy-to-obtain industrial chemicals which would be a pain to make at modern purity levels after a complete collapse - stuff like acids, bases, acetone, alcohols. Anything I can store in useful quantities but don’t need a licence for and that isn’t likely to go BOOM _just_ sitting on a shelf. ETA: I don’t know why people focus on making gunpowder when they could make guncotton instead. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/99 "2019-10-03T13:57:52Z")
To MrDibble: it’s a shorthand that the non-gunny understand. It doesn’t refer to gunpowder per se, so much as to “stuff that goes into weapons and explosives”. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115/100 "2019-10-03T14:03:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > ETA: I don’t know why people focus on making gunpowder when they could make guncotton instead. Oi vey, now you need cotton, nitric acid, sulfuric acid… That stuff don’t grow on trees ! Well, OK, cotton kinda does. Still, black powder’s much easier, and even that is complicated to make with just sticks and stones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-gold-matter-in-the-post-apocalypse/841115.md?page=6)