# Will Hackers cause car crashes or other problems? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329 "2015-02-10T20:39:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/41 "2015-02-11T23:15:26Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > To all of those people who responded to let us know that their car is impervious to hacking: That’s not the point of the thread, congrats, you are poor like the rest of us. > > Back to the topic: > [So many](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0813/Scientists-hack-into-cars-computers-control-brakes-engine) news articles imply that [brakes can be hacked.](http://www.citynews.ca/2015/02/10/automakers-need-to-do-more-to-stop-cyber-attacks-experts/) > > [According to wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-by-wire#Architecture_of_an_Electromechanical_Braking_System), only 2 car models on the planet have brake-by-wire, and even then these systems are described as semi- brake-by-wire. > > How would a hacker control braking response if 99.999% of the cars on the road have a direct hydraulic connection between your foot and the binders? Why does almost every news article imply that brake control is within a hackers ability? Is it bald-faced media sensationalism? Any car with ABS and traction or stability control can apply the brakes without driver input. But there’s not really any reason why the modules that run those would be connected to a wireless infotainment system. With the Teslas, there’s two big distinctions there. First, a big part of why the drive train computers aren’t linked to the infotainment systems is that car makers like to be able to mix and match engines and car platforms easily, which doesn’t really apply to Tesla. But the other big thing is that teslas don’t get oil changes and are actively trying not to have a dealer network, so the OTA updates are almost a necessity for them. Most conventional carmakers would much prefer you come into the dealer to get a update done. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/42 "2015-02-11T23:46:37Z")
Threads like this make me glad to be old and will die soon. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/43 "2015-02-12T00:50:52Z")
There are plenty of ways to mess cars up now. And sometimes they do. Sometimes cars get stolen. Sometimes windows or headlights get smashed. Sometimes people drop bowling balls onto freeways. But most of the time they don’t. Hacking a car is going to be a lot harder than taking a baseball bat to the fender, and it’s not like people don’t drive cars because of that possibility. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/44 "2015-02-12T08:00:05Z")
I have yet to see actual proof of a successful hack into a car. There’s only been claims of spoofing sensors, which “researchers” say “could” give them all these scary control over a car. I have a hard time believing they can actually do this since they don’t have access to the source code. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/45 "2015-02-12T08:41:29Z")
Also, in the event of a hack, the first time any car comes close to crashing (and likely before that), the data it uploads\* will mean the manufacturers will be aware of the hack and can either patch it, or in the worst case, just lock down that model of car as a precaution\*\*. So your personal risk is if someone has successfully hacked the system, _and_ it’s a malicious hack, _and_ no-one, worldwide, has detected anything unusual yet. You’re basically in meteorite crashing through your windscreen territory. - Yeah they could also hack the uploading mechanism, but this would require a hack much more sophisticated than viruses typically are, requiring a vast development budget / time. It would also be easier to protect against, because you can have all kinds of server-side checks on the nature and frequency of data being uploaded. \*\* And before you worry about _that_, any successfully hack of a autonomous vehicle would be a big deal and would likely result in a government investigation of how it happened. If it happened several times, that would essentially kill autonomous vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/46 "2015-02-12T23:20:22Z")
Awww… Isn’t that sweet - someone who believes an auto maker will promptly take bold and decisive action the instant it becomes aware that its products are killing people… Excuse me while I feed my pet unicorn and polish her rainbow for her… ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/47 "2015-02-13T02:45:49Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Isn’t that sweet - someone who believes an auto maker will promptly take bold and decisive action the instant it becomes aware that its products are killing people… I think he’s saying the government would shut down the program. Which is exactly what would happen and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/48 "2015-02-13T02:49:36Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Awww… > > Isn’t that sweet - someone who believes an auto maker will promptly take bold and decisive action the instant it becomes aware that its products are killing people… > > Excuse me while I feed my pet unicorn and polish her rainbow for her… Sure. And maybe your unicorn can explain to you a little about how the auto industry works. You see, cars are significantly safer than even 20 years ago both as a result of increasingly stringent international regulations, and also that it’s pretty much impossible for a manufacturer to keep a fault secret for any appreciable amount of time (assuming they wanted to). Incidents like the Toyota accelerator pedal problem are illustrative of how times have changed since the Pinto. Toyota _did_ move fast, with recalls of many vehicles and stopping production lines while an investigation was carried out. Nevertheless, the total cost to Toyota sales and dealerships has been around $4.5 billion. That’s _not_ including the drop in share price or any lawsuits. And the very nature of the autonomous car enterprise means both 1) stiffer regulation, as you can’t have one bad apple making the whole thing unsafe and affecting consumer confidence. and 2) easier to identify and prove a software fault, since there is no driver error component. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/49 "2015-02-13T02:59:40Z")
Who had the ignition key that would fall out of the lock? How long on that one? The faulty air bags? And, of course, the Queen Mother of (recent) Auto Industry Responsibility: Ford Explorer - Ford tried to blame Firestone, which blamed Ford.\* - - in the 1930’s, one of the Ford family married one of the Firestone family. Thereafter, all Fords came with Firestone tires. Until the Explorer debacle. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/50 "2015-02-13T06:41:04Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Picture your next car with a HAL 2000 computer. It’s here. “Car, take me home please.” “Car, where are we going?” “Car, what are you doing!?!?! Why are you taking me on this winding mountain road? Why are we going so fast on these treacherous curves?” “Car, SLOW DOWN!!!” “I’m sorry, Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.” ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329/51 "2015-02-13T06:59:31Z")
My car doesn’t even have Electronic Stability Control so I think I’ll be just fine… That is until I lose control of it and crash into a brick wall or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hackers-cause-car-crashes-or-other-problems/712329.md?page=2)