# Will Harry Reid be forced to step down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394 "2010-01-10T15:39:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/201 "2010-01-14T14:36:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What Lott said was not well thought out and I can see him getting some flak for it, but what transpired was unfair and ridiculous. I say the same about this attack on Reid. Exactly. The unfairness that Lott was subjected to, has led to this attack on Reid as a method of payback. It’s kind of amusing that there are those on this board that just refuse to acknowledge that. Speaking of… > [@](#): > > **Diogenes the Cynic** > > No double standard has been demonstrated. Lott said something offensive, Reid did not. If you disagree, please explain what Reid said that was offensive. YOU STILL DON’T GET IT!!! The only reason that what Reid said is not considered offensive, is because he is of the political Left. Had Mitch McConnell uttered the same phrase, there would have been great rending of garments and gnashing of teeth on the Left. Just like Don Imus’ “nappy-headed Hos” comment. He wasn’t trying to be racist, he was trying to be funny, a la Chris Rock. Because he is white, it was an opportunity for professional race-hucksters to flex their muscle. Had he been black, well, then it would have been funny. GET IT?? ---
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/202 "2010-01-14T14:37:39Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > No, I think it’s you who don’t get it. Trent lot wished for the election of a segregationist president. The statements aren’t remotely comparable. Now, maybe you can “get it” too. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/203 "2010-01-14T14:55:16Z")
I find it remarkable that people are seriously arguing that Reid’s and Lott’s (and now Imus’s!) statements are alike. It pretty much demonstrates the tone deafness that riddles the Republican Party. (Not that I think party leaders think there’s any equivalence.) Of course, if it knocks Reid out of leadership, I won’t cry a single tear. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/204 "2010-01-14T14:56:05Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > Exactly. The unfairness that Lott was subjected to, has led to this attack on Reid as a method of payback. > > It’s kind of amusing that there are those on this board that just refuse to acknowledge that. > > Speaking of…YOU STILL DON’T GET IT!!! The only reason that what Reid said is not considered offensive, is because he is of the political Left. Had Mitch McConnell uttered the same phrase, there would have been great rending of garments and gnashing of teeth on the Left. > > Just like Don Imus’ “nappy-headed Hos” comment. He wasn’t trying to be racist, he was trying to be funny, a la Chris Rock. Because he is white, it was an opportunity for professional race-hucksters to flex their muscle. Had he been black, well, then it would have been funny. GET IT?? You’re the one who doesn’t get it, bra. Reid didn’t say anything offensive, period. Don Imus did. Trent Lott did. Reid did not. It’s just that simple. Saying (unwittingly or not) that you wish a segregationsit Presient had been elected is offensive. Calling a college women’s baskeball team who has done nothing to deserve ridicule “nappy headed hos” is offensive. Saying Obama doesn’t talk black is not. It’s just that simple. Neither Lott nor Imus was victimized by Demorcats, by the way. Lott as forced out by his own party. Imus was fired because he lost all his sponsors. It’s called capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/205 "2010-01-14T15:08:27Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > The unfairness that Lott was subjected to, has led to this attack on Reid as a method of payback. Everyone recognizes that this is political payback. The problem is the statements and the sentiments Reid and Lott expressed are not similar in any way. > [@](#): > > Just like Don Imus’ “nappy-headed Hos” comment. He wasn’t trying to be racist, he was trying to be funny, a la Chris Rock. When it comes to making jokes about race, Chris Rock has an advantage on Imus: Rock is funny. Imus’ problem was that he not only used some racially charged language, he picked on a target most people agreed didn’t deserve it (a successful women’s basketball team) and what he and his people said was unfnny. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/206 "2010-01-14T15:41:59Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > … This is a perfect example of the shallow, single issue and run with it thinking that is the head of the current Right. I am trying to understand this way of thinking. It seems to be, “I, and the people whom I identify with politically have been called out in the past for overt or subconscious racist remarks. I now expect a shitstorm every time we mention certain buzz words. Therefore, every time these buzz words are mentioned, it is racism. And when a shitstorm does not occur when someone mentions one of these buzz words, it is a double standard.” It is like there is not one ounce of thought or self reflection. Instead of thinking, “Gee, maybe these people have a point when they point out over and over again that what I am saying might be racist,” it seems to be, “Here they are complaining again. I’ll just avoid certain words so they stop complaining.” There is no contemplation that context is paramount. To them a word is a word. > [@](#): > > Exactly. The unfairness that Lott was subjected to, has led to this attack on Reid as a method of payback. > > It’s kind of amusing that there are those on this board that just refuse to acknowledge that. People are refusing to acknowledge this because it is absurd. The attack on Reid is nothing more than another attack in the have a new political attack every day no matter if we have to twist words or completely make something up strategy. The Republicans are acting like children and the “No you are!” strategy is blindingly obvious. For the record, while I think Lott’s comments could be interpreted as racist, I felt the controversy was much ado about nothing. It was unfair to attack him so vociferously. > [@](#): > > YOU STILL DON’T GET IT!!! The only reason that what Reid said is not considered offensive, is because he is of the political Left. Had Mitch McConnell uttered the same phrase, there would have been great rending of garments and gnashing of teeth on the Left. > > Just like Don Imus’ “nappy-headed Hos” comment. He wasn’t trying to be racist, he was trying to be funny, a la Chris Rock. Because he is white, it was an opportunity for professional race-hucksters to flex their muscle. Had he been black, well, then it would have been funny. GET IT?? How in the world can you think a phrase is per se offensive and then in the NEXT PARAGRAPH explain how context and intent is important in interpreting a phrase? How about you apply your reasoning in the second paragraph to the first? Reid was talking about how the electorate would be more comfortable with a fair skinned black man who speaks a language they have in common. Is that wrong? Why don’t you give him the benefit of the doubt you give Don Imus? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/207 "2010-01-14T15:53:28Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > I am trying to understand this way of thinking. It seems to be, “I, and the people whom I identify with politically have been called out in the past for overt or subconscious racist remarks. I now expect a shitstorm every time we mention certain buzz words. Therefore, every time these buzz words are mentioned, it is racism. And when a shitstorm does not occur when someone mentions one of these buzz words, it is a double standard.” The odd thing about that is that Lott mentioned _no_ buzzwords. He didn’t call anyone a Negro, a nigger, or yell “segregation forever!” and as far as I know he didn’t say anything that could be taken as a coded reference to race. He just came out and said the country would be better off if Thurmond had been elected on a pro-segregation ticket in 1948. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/208 "2010-01-14T17:15:56Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > Exactly. The unfairness that Lott was subjected to, has led to this attack on Reid as a method of payback. > > It’s kind of amusing that there are those on this board that just refuse to acknowledge that. > > Speaking of…YOU STILL DON’T GET IT!!! The only reason that what Reid said is not considered offensive, is because he is of the political Left. Had Mitch McConnell uttered the same phrase, there would have been great rending of garments and gnashing of teeth on the Left. > > Just like Don Imus’ “nappy-headed Hos” comment. He wasn’t trying to be racist, he was trying to be funny, a la Chris Rock. Because he is white, it was an opportunity for professional race-hucksters to flex their muscle. Had he been black, well, then it would have been funny. GET IT?? Nappy headed ho’s is horribly insulting and not funny. Negro is not an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/209 "2010-01-14T19:06:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Saying Obama doesn’t talk black is not. It’s just that simple. That’s your opinion, not a given fact. Remember during the OJ Simpson trial when one of the witnesses said that he heard voices that sounded black? Johnny Cochran’s reply was: > [@](#): > > “You can’t tell by someone’s voice when they’re black,” Cochran said. “That’s racist. This statement about whether somebody sounds black or white is racist, and I resent it. I think it’s totally improper in America at this time in 1995 just to hear this and endure this.” Is it proper now? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/210 "2010-01-14T19:32:23Z")
It’s an invalid comparison, since Cohran was only talking about the sound of a voice, not a dialect. Also, anybody can talk with a “black” dialect, that’s immaterial to whether Obama does, or to that that he was arguably more widely acceptable to white voters because he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/211 "2010-01-14T19:32:57Z")
Since when have you taken Cochran’s court statements as gospel? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/212 "2010-01-14T19:33:43Z")
Incidentally, what the fuck does Johhn Cochran have to do with Democrats and Republicans? Who gives a shit what Johnny Cochran said? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/213 "2010-01-14T19:35:45Z")
Johnny Cochran was attempting to demonstrate that the witness could not have identified his client from his voice, so his statements there might not be _wholly_ objective, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/214 "2010-01-14T19:36:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s an invalid comparison, since Cohran was only talking about the sound of a voice, not a dialect. It’s also ridiculous to cite Cochran as an authority on racism in the first place. There’s no reason to think he even believed what he was saying. He was trying to get his client acquitted in a criminal trial by creating doubts about the testimony of a witness. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/215 "2010-01-14T19:45:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incidentally, what the fuck does Johhn Cochran have to do with Democrats and Republicans? Who gives a shit what Johnny Cochran said? It’s not about Democrats and Republicans, it’s about whether or not saying someone “talks black” is racist or not and I’m afraid it’s not your call. You can hand wave it away all that you want but that doesn’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/216 "2010-01-14T19:47:33Z")
So what makes Cochran an authority on that subject? He made one statement about it when he was highly motivated to do so. If everyone had accepted his viewpoint, that would be one thing, but I don’t think a lot of people did. And I remember the issue being discussed at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/217 "2010-01-14T19:49:26Z")
Are you denying that many African-Americans speak a dialect of English that is closer to each other than the predominant dialect of English spoken in their immediate surroundings? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/218 "2010-01-14T19:51:35Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > It’s not about Democrats and Republicans, it’s about whether or not saying someone “talks black” is racist or not and I’m afraid it’s not your call. You can hand wave it away all that you want but that doesn’t make it so. Whose call is it? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/219 "2010-01-14T19:54:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So what makes Cochran an authority on that subject? He made one statement about it when he was highly motivated to do so. If everyone had accepted his viewpoint, that would be one thing, but I don’t think a lot of people did. And I remember the issue being discussed at the time. I don’t know. How does one become “an authority” on racism? Does the fact that he didn’t have the honorific of Reverand in front of his name mean that he can’t be an authority? I remember the exchange very well, it was not simply Cochran’s typical courtroom theatrics. It was an issue on which he apparently felt very strongly. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/220 "2010-01-14T19:59:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Whose call is it? I don’t know. I do know that as a middle-aged white man, I cannot arbitrarily decide that the phrase “Negro dialect” is not racist and expect that others will take my word as gospel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394.md?page=12)