# Will Harry Reid be forced to step down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394 "2010-01-10T15:39:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/41 "2010-01-11T04:23:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was nothing. People apologize for nothing all the time. Apologies do not confer substance. That’s your opinion. > [@](#): > > It certainly isn’t. It’s completely empty partisanship and phony offense. Eh. So was the outrage at Trent Lott. It’s just payback. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, how can you simultaneously say that Reid is being “given a pass,” and that you disagree that he should have to step down. If you agree that the Dems should not force him to step down, then how can you complain that they are “giving him a pass?” Well, I was talking about what the folks on the right were expressing outrage at, in response to your erroneous statement. And there’s plenty of room between giving the guy a pass and making him step down. Stop seeing every fucking issue in stark black and white (pardon the pun). ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/42 "2010-01-11T04:39:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is also no double standard. There isn’t? We heard for weeks about how McCain calling Obama “That one” was racist, but saying that he could win 'cause he’s “light skinned” and “doesn’t speak in a negro dialect” is totally innocent.:dubious: I can see people not thinking that Reid’s comment was harmful towards Obama, but that’s not where the racism comes in - it’s a racist slight against the black folks Obama is being compared to. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/43 "2010-01-11T04:42:44Z")
The important thing is that President Obama has accepted Reid’s apology and Reid has extended it to Reverend Al Sharpton just in case it didn’t take. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/44 "2010-01-11T04:45:37Z")
If the use of “Negro” isn’t offensive, at least to some people, why is there offense over it’s use on the census form. I’m surprised you guys haven’t seen this in the news lately. [Link](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/07/national/main6067168.shtml) > [@](#): > > The use of the term “negro” on the government’s 2010 census form has offended some members of the black community in the New York metropolitan area, CBS News station WCBS-TV in New York reported Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/45 "2010-01-11T04:59:04Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > There isn’t? We heard for weeks about how McCain calling Obama “That one” was racist Cite? I remember saying and hearing that it was stupid, not that it was racist. > [@](#): > > I can see people not thinking that Reid’s comment was harmful towards Obama, but that’s not where the racism comes in - it’s a racist slight against the black folks Obama is being compared to. No it wasn’t. It was a cynical opinion about white voters. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/46 "2010-01-11T05:16:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If the use of “Negro” isn’t offensive, at least to some people, why is there offense over it’s use on the census form. I’m surprised you guys haven’t seen this in the news lately. [Link](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/07/national/main6067168.shtml) I didn’t say it wasn’t offensive to some people. I just don’t _care_ if they’re offended. Not every bit offense needs to be respected (including the use of the word on the census form, which is used as a slash descriptor alongside “Black,” and “African-American,” specifically because some older black people showed a preference for “negro” in surveys). As I said upthread, that used to be the polite word. It’s really intent that matters. The word can be used in a naive, non-malicious, behind-the-times sort of way, or it can be used in an intentionally hostile, taunting or belittling way. Reid used the word in a Grandpa Simpson kind of way. This is actually a case where _nobody_ is offended, though. The reason it never works for righties to try to play this whole “double-standard” game is that they don’t really understand what makes certain language hurtful. It’s not just the voodoo of the words all by themselves. When you boil down the sentiments expressed by Reid (who I don’t even like) and Trent Lott (who I defended at the time) respectively. Reid exoressed a sentiment that Obama is more palatable to a lot of white voters because he doesn’t speak with a black American vernacular. Lott said the US “wouldn’t have all these problems,” if a segregationist candiadte had been elected President in the 60’s. I think Lott’s declaration was more of a thoughtless, innocent attempt to pat an old man on the back than to intentionally express support for the racist policies of Strom Thurmond, but the literal meaning of his words taken at face value actually do imply an offensive sentiment, while Reid’s just suggest a cynical (but probably accurate) view of some white voters. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/47 "2010-01-11T05:21:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s your opinion. You’ve never either given _or heard_ an apology made simply for the purpose of bud-nipping? Really? > [@](#): > > So was the outrage at Trent Lott. It’s just payback. This is payback, sure, but are you also unaware that there is quite a bit more history behind Lott’s racism than one moment of forgetting he was on tape? Look up “Council of Conservative Citizens” for more info. Not all opinions are of equal value, and not all outrage is phony. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/48 "2010-01-11T05:47:13Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > \*\*Will Harry Reid be forced to step down? > \*\*How could you tell? Gotta agree. It’s hard to step down when you’re groveling on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/49 "2010-01-11T06:11:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I didn’t say it wasn’t offensive to some people. I just don’t _care_ if they’re offended. Not every bit offense needs to be respected (including the use of the word on the census form, which is used as a slash descriptor alongside “Black,” and “African-American,” specifically because some older black people showed a preference for “negro” in surveys). As I said upthread, that used to be the polite word. It’s really intent that matters. The word can be used in a naive, non-malicious, behind-the-times sort of way, or it can be used in an intentionally hostile, taunting or belittling way. Reid used the word in a Grandpa Simpson kind of way. > > This is actually a case where _nobody_ is offended, though. The reason it never works for righties to try to play this whole “double-standard” game is that they don’t really understand what makes certain language hurtful. It’s not just the voodoo of the words all by themselves. When you boil down the sentiments expressed by Reid (who I don’t even like) and Trent Lott (who I defended at the time) respectively. Reid exoressed a sentiment that Obama is more palatable to a lot of white voters because he doesn’t speak with a black American vernacular. Lott said the US “wouldn’t have all these problems,” if a segregationist candiadte had been elected President in the 60’s. > > I think Lott’s declaration was more of a thoughtless, innocent attempt to pat an old man on the back than to intentionally express support for the racist policies of Strom Thurmond, but the literal meaning of his words taken at face value actually do imply an offensive sentiment, while Reid’s just suggest a cynical (but probably accurate) view of some white voters. What a load of crap. You can hand wave all you want, but Reid is a product of his time, living in a white bread Mormon world where Blacks were marginalized well passed the days of Jim Crow. It’s astonishing to what lengths you’ll go to rationalize the irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/50 "2010-01-11T06:16:32Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > You don’t get it. The outrage is over the double-standard that the pols on the Right are held to. This issue is a variation of “Only Nixon could go to China”. It’s not hypocritical on anyone’s part, it just has to do with the historical real and perceived positions of the parties on various issues. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/51 "2010-01-11T06:19:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The right’s pretended outrage at this is completely disingenuous and transparently partisan and opportunistic. What Reid said was clumsy and embarrassing in the way that many people of a certain generation can make us cringe (“negro” was the polite, PC word in 60’s and 70’s), but his words were said in private, and the actual sentiment was not only unremarkable, but something that most conservatives would agree with (and not infrequently in the same words). This. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/52 "2010-01-11T13:43:33Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > This issue is a variation of “Only Nixon could go to China”. It’s not hypocritical on anyone’s part, it just has to do with the historical real and perceived positions of the parties on various issues. Imagine someone who says, “It’s OK for this comment to be made by a Democrat, because the Dem’s current position on racial issues makes the context harmless; it’s NOT OK for this same comment to be made by a Republican, because the Pub’s current position on racial issues makes such comments suspect.” This person has laid out a principled distinction for the seemingly disparate treatment. Holding the “double standard” is not hypocritical in this instance. But if the objector insists that the words alone drive his judgment, but reaches substantially different results for Lott and Reid, then I’d say he’s hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/53 "2010-01-11T13:57:36Z")
There’s really no argument against the point Reid was making, but the way he said it was just plain stupid. That said, Republicans should be careful about trying to push him out of office. If they succeed - though they probably won’t - they would probably be doing the Democrats a favor. But if Obama stands behind Reid and other prominent black leaders will accept an apology, Reid probably won’t have to go away. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/54 "2010-01-11T14:05:48Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > This issue is a variation of “Only Nixon could go to China”. It’s not hypocritical on anyone’s part, it just has to do with the historical real and perceived positions of the parties on various issues. Why is Reid being judged solely as a Democrat? He’s many things besides just a Democrat. He’s an older, white male and a member of a religion that has been historically hostile to Blacks. I just don’t get this idea that being a member of the Democratic party lets you say things that a Republican can’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/55 "2010-01-11T14:24:00Z")
“Senior political figure discusses electorate’s biases in informal private conversation during election campaign. Choice of words possibly anachronistic.” The horror! The horror! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/56 "2010-01-11T15:00:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Imagine someone who says, “It’s OK for this comment to be made by a Democrat, because the Dem’s current position on racial issues makes the context harmless; it’s NOT OK for this same comment to be made by a Republican, because the Pub’s current position on racial issues makes such comments suspect.” > > This person has laid out a principled distinction for the seemingly disparate treatment. Holding the “double standard” is not hypocritical in this instance. > > But if the objector insists that the words alone drive his judgment, but reaches substantially different results for Lott and Reid, then I’d say he’s hypocritical. The comment would be ok by either a Democrat or a Republican. Lott did not make this comment. He made (albeit probably unwittingly) a far more inflammatory one. Reid said that Obama doesn’t talk black. Lott said de-segregation wa the cause of “all these problems.” The sentiments are not the same. The comments are not comparable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/57 "2010-01-11T15:01:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why is Reid being judged solely as a Democrat? He’s many things besides just a Democrat. He’s an older, white male and a member of a religion that has been historically hostile to Blacks. > > I just don’t get this idea that being a member of the Democratic party lets you say things that a Republican can’t say. It doesn’t. A Republican could say this too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/58 "2010-01-11T15:18:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But if the objector insists that the words alone drive his judgment, but reaches substantially different results for Lott and Reid, then I’d say he’s hypocritical. It would be foolish for anyone to drive a judgment based on words alone. Context and background are critical, too. What is hypocritical is to pretend they don’t exist. [The KKK without the robes:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Conservative_Citizens) > [@](#): > > The Council of Conservative Citizens (CofCC) is an American political organization that supports a large variety of conservative and paleoconservative causes in addition to white nationalism and white separatism. Some members of the CofCC board of directors are former leaders of the segregationist Citizen Councils of America, founded by Major Bob Patterson, which is sometimes referred to as the White Citizens’ Council. > … > > The CofCC became involved in national politics during the 1990s when it was discovered by journalists and researchers that many politicians, including Bob Barr, had belonged to or spoken at CofCC functions (saying later in Barr’s case that he found the groups’ racial views to be “repugnant,” and didn’t realize the nature of the group when he agreed to attend), had either attended the group’s meetings, corresponded with its leaders, and/or spoken favorably of it.[3] Subsequently it was found that U.S. Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott had also spoken at a CofCC meeting. In the ensuing controversy the CofCC was denounced by the Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Jim Nicholson, for holding “racist and nationalist views”. Other national and state politicians who have given speeches or attended CofCC meetings include former Senator Jesse Helms, and former governors H. Guy Hunt of Alabama and Kirk Fordice of Mississippi. Former House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt also attended event of the organization’s St. Louis predecessor the “Metro-South Citizens Council” shortly before the name change in the mid-1980s. This was an event he has repeatedly referred to as a mistake.[4] > > The SPLC and the Miami Herald tallied a further 38 federal, state, and local politicians who appeared at CofCC events between 2000 and 2004.[5] > > The ADL states the following politicians are members or have spoke at meetings: Senator Trent Lott, Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, Mississippi state senators Gary Jackson, and Dean Kirby, several Mississippi state representatives. People who have also spoken at CofCC meetings include Ex-Governors Guy Hunt of Alabama, and Kirk Fordice of Mississippi. U.S. Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi is said to have attended as well.[6] [Lott](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Lott#Resignation_from_Senate_leadership): > [@](#): > > Political controversy ensued following remarks Lott made on December 5, 2002 at the 100th birthday party of Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina. Thurmond ran for President of the United States in 1948 on the Dixiecrat (or States’ Rights) ticket. Lott said: “When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over the years, either.”[3] > > Thurmond had based his presidential campaign largely on an explicit racial segregation platform. Lott had attracted controversy before in issues relating to civil rights. As a Congressman, he voted against renewal of the Voting Rights Act, voted against the continuation of the Civil Rights Act and opposed making Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday a federal holiday.[4] Lott has a racist background, Reid does not. Yes, that should influence one’s judgment. But calling these two very different things “this comment”, as you do, is either a calculated, result-oriented, lawyerly choice of words or just simply inane. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/59 "2010-01-11T16:15:21Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > Harry Reid is an elitist prick. The comment that sealed the deal for me, was when Harry Reid said, > > > [@](#): > > > > In the summer because of the heat and high humidity, you could literally smell the tourists coming into the Capitol. > > But that, too, was evidently acceptable for the Left. In a bad DC summer you can smell any large group of people entering any building. ---
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/60 "2010-01-11T16:26:02Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > In a bad DC summer you can smell any large group of people entering any building. Maybe so, but does it have to be said by a United States Senator, who is supposed to be at the service of the citizens? Heavens forbid that the un-washed masses come to visit the Capitol. Yeah, he’s an elitist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394.md?page=4)