# Will Harry Reid be forced to step down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394 "2010-01-10T15:39:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/121 "2010-01-12T05:22:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The 1980 quote was at a Reagan rally and Thurmond was talking about fiscal conservancy which was the hallmark of Reagan’s campaign. > > Lott was a little boy when Democrat Thurmond tried to run as a Dixiecrat with a segregationist platform. It’s not altogether illogical to link Dixiecrat Thurmond’s segregationist platform to Lott’s remarks but he was at Republican Thurmond’s 100’th birthday praising one of the longest standing Senators in history. > > Lott stepped down over the mere inferences made to what he said. Poor Trent Lott. I guess some believe that he had _no idea_ that Thurmond’s Dixiecrat policy had _anything_ to do with it’s slogan “Segregation Forever!” (Exclamation point, theirs.) And Lott’s contacts with the white supremicist group [the Council of Conservative Citizens](http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/CCCitizens.asp?xpicked) is entirely innocent, by this way of thinking. Doe-eyed conservatives seem to believe that it’s impossible that any of their number would ever practice dog-whistle politics, or that they would actually sympathize with those opposing the Civil Rights Act. Tip of hat: [Coates]([http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2010/01](http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2010/01) /on\_harry\_reid.php). Heh: Thurmond, during the 1980 rally: “”[We] want that federal government to keep their filthy hands off the rights of the states." ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/122 "2010-01-12T06:57:56Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Poor Trent Lott. I guess some believe that he had _no idea_ that Thurmond’s Dixiecrat policy had _anything_ to do with it’s slogan “Segregation Forever!” (Exclamation point, theirs.) And Lott’s contacts with the white supremicist group [the Council of Conservative Citizens](http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/CCCitizens.asp?xpicked) is entirely innocent, by this way of thinking. Doe-eyed conservatives seem to believe that it’s impossible that any of their number would ever practice dog-whistle politics, or that they would actually sympathize with those opposing the Civil Rights Act. Oh please, another lecture from someone with selective history disorder. While you’re tripping down memory lane you hand wave Senator Byrd’s past away with one hand and point at Thurmond with the other. He was right there with Thurmond filibustering civil rights laws. Democrats have given absolution to an actual Klan member but Thurmond remains Satan’s little helper. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/123 "2010-01-12T07:25:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oh please, another lecture from someone with selective history disorder. While you’re tripping down memory lane you hand wave Senator Byrd’s past away with one hand and point at Thurmond with the other. He was right there with Thurmond filibustering civil rights laws. Democrats have given absolution to an actual Klan member but Thurmond remains Satan’s little helper. Er - I was contesting your characterization of the 1980 remarks by Strom - when he affirmed his support for \ states rights. And Lott was the guy who brought up the Dixiecrat party in 1980 and 2002, not I. Strom was actually a canny politician: immediately after losing to the forces of progress in 1965, he hired African American staff members. He always knew what he was doing. So do I take it we agree that Lott cavorting with white supremacists and expressing nostalgia for the Dixiecrat party reflected a twisted mindset? Because I can’t see any response to my central point. But we can discuss Byrd too, if you want. Has he said anything in the past 30 years that gives you pause? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/124 "2010-01-12T07:31:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oh please, another lecture from someone with selective history disorder. While you’re tripping down memory lane you hand wave Senator Byrd’s past away with one hand and point at Thurmond with the other. He was right there with Thurmond filibustering civil rights laws. Democrats have given absolution to an actual Klan member but Thurmond remains Satan’s little helper. Lott didn’t just praise Strom Thurmond, he specifically singled out his 1948 Presidential campaign as a good thing. I’m not exactly well-versed in Thurmond’s life, but it’s my understanding that he has repudiated his segregationist views. When Democrats praise Byrd, it is in spite of his past, not because of it. Both men have vile beliefs in their pasts, that they later rose above, and have long careers with many items to cite for praise. Lott decided, for some reason, to praise the vile actions, not the virtuous ones in Thurmond’s past. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/125 "2010-01-12T08:08:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Er - I was contesting your characterization of the 1980 remarks by Strom - when he affirmed his support for \ states rights. And Lott was the guy who brought up the Dixiecrat party in 1980 and 2002, not I. > > Strom was actually a canny politician: immediately after losing to the forces of progress in 1965, he hired African American staff members. He always knew what he was doing. > > So do I take it we agree that Lott cavorting with white supremacists and expressing nostalgia for the Dixiecrat party reflected a twisted mindset? Because I can’t see any response to my central point. If you want to believe Lott supported segregation with what he said then that’s your prerogative. He stood down because of the inference of what he said, not what he said. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > But we can discuss Byrd too, if you want. Has he said anything in the past 30 years that gives you pause? “White Niggers” come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/126 "2010-01-12T11:44:34Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’m just astonished that in this day and age, any politician would be dumb enough to use the word “negro.” That _really_ threw me. I think that was his attempt to be more scientific in his analysis. Would “black dialect” or “urban dialect” have been better? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/127 "2010-01-12T12:00:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He stood down because of the inference of what he said, not what he said. Is there any other inference that can be drawn from what he said? If you take the **Diogenes the Cynic** position - Lott was just flattering an old man, so it’s no big deal - I wouldn’t agree but I at least understand the viewpoint. But you keep talking about the “inference” of what Lott said as if he might have meant something else and didn’t really say it would have been a good thing if Thurmond had won in 1948. I can’t think of what else he might have meant. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/128 "2010-01-12T13:21:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree with this. Context matters. As I mentioned much earlier in the thread, I think this latest flap is much ado about nothing. The whining that any mention of anything racial is racist. But that IS the world that the democrats have created. It’s nonsense. I also think that fair treatment of Lott would take into account context—that he said that at a birthday party for a ninety-year old guy. Anyone who took it to mean that Thurmond’s election would have avoided all “these problems” due specifically to the segregationist stance, and that Lott was actually of that opinion AND would voice it publicly is either a kneejerk partisan or an idiot. Or both. FTR I tend to agree with this. I don’t think that Lotts comments are quite as innocuous as Reids, but the reaction to them was over the top. At the time though, the left was really looking for a win. The reality is that Lotts stepping down made little difference. ---
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/129 "2010-01-12T13:30:28Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Poor Trent Lott. I guess some believe that he had _no idea_ that Thurmond’s Dixiecrat policy had _anything_ to do with it’s slogan “Segregation Forever!” (Exclamation point, theirs.) And Lott’s contacts with the white supremicist group [the Council of Conservative Citizens](http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/CCCitizens.asp?xpicked) is entirely innocent, by this way of thinking. Doe-eyed conservatives seem to believe that it’s impossible that any of their number would ever practice dog-whistle politics, or that they would actually sympathize with those opposing the Civil Rights Act. Just for the record, 63% of Democrats in the House of Representatives opposed the Civil Rights Act, while only 24% of Republicans opposed the Act. ---
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/130 "2010-01-12T13:42:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why not? What’s elitist or offensive about it? An everyday citizen takes a trip to visit the Capitol, then hears of a Senator commenting on the smell of the visitors, and you don’t see any offense, or an elitist tone at that? ---
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/131 "2010-01-12T14:00:23Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > I call BS on this one. The outrage at Trent Lott was over his outright statement at a public forum that everyone would have been better off if the Segregationists had won with Strom Thurmond in 1948. It was not a public forum, it was the Senator’s 100th birthday celebration. At such an event, speakers usually give praise to the one whose is being celebrated. Senator Lott should have been given a pass, just as Harry Reid should be given a pass. But, since Harry Reid didn’t give Senator Lott a pass, (and neither did then Senator Obama) don’t you think it’s just deserts that Reid is facing the same degree of criticism? I do. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/132 "2010-01-12T14:03:39Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > But, since Harry Reid didn’t give Senator Lott a pass, (and neither did then Senator Obama) don’t you think it’s just deserts that Reid is facing the same degree of criticism? Lott’s comments were made in 2002. Obama was an Illinois state senator at the time and I don’t remember any public statements from him about what Lott said, now or then. EDIT: [Okay, here’s one.](http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=59337) If this was posted upthread I didn’t see it. Moving on: you seem to be assuming Reid’s statement is as deserving of criticism as Lott’s. They both touch on the issue of race but I don’t see how they’re equal. And that’s really the whole issue here, so you can’t just assume this conclusion. Reid said something a politician surely would not want repeated in public and his word choice was both indelicate and anachronistic but it was not prejudiced on its face. I can’t say that about Lott’s remarks. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/133 "2010-01-12T14:48:19Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > Just for the record, 63% of Democrats in the House of Representatives opposed the Civil Rights Act, while only 24% of Republicans opposed the Act. That again? Please explain to us your understanding of the Southern Strategy. Preferably after you take a look at electoral maps of that period and today. Did you think the Civil Rights Act was a _Republican_ initiative? Here’s the short version for ya: Then, the Democrats were the home of racist southern whites, as they had been ever since Reconstruction. But there had been two different general factions of Democrats ever since the Compromise of 1850, if not earlier. The northern Democrats, and the smaller faction of Southern progressives that included Johnson, pushed through a package of civil rights legislation in the full knowledge that the southern faction would later go over to the Republicans, but that the national interest superseded their party’s. The people who opposed the Civil Rights Act are now Republicans. That includes both Lott and Thurmond. Deal with it. > [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > I don’t think that Lotts comments are quite as innocuous as Reids, but the reaction to them was over the top. Only if taken in isolation. If the racist history of the GOP leader, as demonstrated in the links I already quoted, but which had been overlooked by the lazy Beltway media is taken into account, the reaction looks more like a sports referee’s make-up call. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/134 "2010-01-12T15:16:21Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > Just for the record, 63% of Democrats in the House of Representatives opposed the Civil Rights Act, while only 24% of Republicans opposed the Act. The Democrats were the conservative party at the time. conservatives opposed the Civil Rights Act, then switched over to the Republican Party afterwards. The “left” and “right” parties reversed themselves after the civil rights act. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/135 "2010-01-12T15:19:12Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > An everyday citizen takes a trip to visit the Capitol, then hears of a Senator commenting on the smell of the visitors, and you don’t see any offense, or an elitist tone at that? Nope. Have you ever smelled a hot room full of people? Any people at all? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/136 "2010-01-12T15:21:06Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > It was not a public forum, it was the Senator’s 100th birthday celebration. At such an event, speakers usually give praise to the one whose is being celebrated. Senator Lott should have been given a pass, just as Harry Reid should be given a pass. But, since Harry Reid didn’t give Senator Lott a pass, (and neither did then Senator Obama) don’t you think it’s just deserts that Reid is facing the same degree of criticism? > > I do. It _was_ said in public, and it was the Republicans who forced out Lott, not the Democrats. It’s also not comparable to Reid because Reid didn’t say anything offensive. If you disagree, please explain exactly what Reid said that offends you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/137 "2010-01-12T15:21:56Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > It was not a public forum, it was the Senator’s 100th birthday celebration. At such an event, speakers usually give praise to the one whose is being celebrated. When such an event has the nation’s press in attendance, you probably shouldn’t give praise for offensive positions people have taken and since _themselves_ recanted. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/138 "2010-01-12T17:03:21Z")
I don’t consider television to be a good way to get news, so I need someone to help me out: Where can I find something to read about how this whole episode got started? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/139 "2010-01-12T17:24:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I don’t consider television to be a good way to get news, so I need someone to help me out: Where can I find something to read about how this whole episode got started? It came from a book called [_Game Change_](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/01/obama-reid-and-the-latest-washington-book-frenzy/1) about the 2008 Presidential election. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394/140 "2010-01-12T18:51:26Z")
Huh. Betcha Heilemann and Halperin have a difficult time getting interviews for their _next_ book… ETA: > [@the text in the book](#): > > as he later put it privately. They seem to have a different notion of what “privately” means, than some other people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-harry-reid-be-forced-to-step-down/524394.md?page=8)