# Will having children solve climate change? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598 "2019-03-27T10:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/1 "2019-03-27T10:33:33Z")
Fifty-three Republican Senators voted unanimously against holding hearings on climate change. Let’s listen in as the key Senator explains his reasons: > [@Mike Lee (R-Utah)](#): > > As the Senate voted against a measure sponsored by Ms Ocasio-Cortez and others that sought to push the US towards the use of renewable energy, Republican Mike Lee said their plan – the so-called Green New Deal – was “ridiculous”. > > During a speech that he illustrated with pictures and posters of dinosaurs, cartoon characters, babies and Aquaman, the senator from Utah claimed he was treating Ms Ocasio-Cortez’s proposal “with the seriousness it deserves”. > > “Unfortunately, fear is unavoidable when debating the substance of the resolution before this body today – that is climate change, socialism, and the Green New Deal,” Mr Lee said. > … > Mr Lee, a staunch conservative, also tweeted a photograph of his presentation. “The solution to climate change is not this unserious resolution, but the serious business of human flourishing – the solution to so many of our problems, at all times and in all places: fall in love, get married, and have some kids,” he wrote. Since this is in GD, I guess I’m obligated to start the debate. I think Lee and the other Gopsters are wrong — why will having kids stop climate change? — but don’t understand his argument well enough to argue in detail. There are Republican Dopers. Can any help flesh out Lee’s argument? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/2 "2019-03-27T10:39:45Z")
Non-Republican WAG: He has no idea what he’s talking about, so he’s just pulling the old Republican standby “family values” talking point out of his ass. In fact, what will help reduce our carbon footprint is **fewer** people having kids, especially those of us in developed countries with extravagant resource use. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/3 "2019-03-27T10:47:33Z")
Senator Mike Lee is a reminder that democratic means are utterly insufficient to the scope of the problem we’re faced with. Look at this shit. Seriously - look at this shit! He’s not even trying to form a coherent response to what amounts to a world-defining problem. This is as if a congressman had responded to Russia aiming nukes at the US with, “Eh, just have more kids, there’s no real problem here, your proposal for a disarmament treaty is totally unserious.” It speaks poorly to Mike Lee’s constituents that he holds office, and it speaks poorly to congress as a whole that he wasn’t laughed and/or bodily thrown out of the room. This isn’t a serious argument. He’s not making a serious argument. The point is not for it to be a serious argument. He’s laughing in the face of anyone who gives a damn about the single most pressing issue facing humanity. He is spitting in the faces of our children. Do you have a child under the age of, say, 30? _He is spitting in that child’s face and laughing. Treat it as such_. What we are facing amounts to nothing less than gross institutionalized violence. Even if we get our shit together, our inaction to date will lead to suffering beyond measure. If we don’t get our shit together now, it’s only going to get worse. The clock is fucking ticking, and these dirtbags cannot and will not do anything about it. Direct action - taking whatever steps necessary, legal or not, to remove people like Mike Lee, James Inhofe, and Mitch McConnell from positions of power - is necessary. I wish I knew how to pursue such an agenda in a useful manner. These people are aiding and abetting making the world uninhabitable for our children. They cannot be allowed to continue, and as has been shown over the past two decades, just expecting the American people to wake up and vote them out _isn’t fucking good enough_. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/4 "2019-03-27T10:58:01Z")
Let me be clear. In a sane world, the response following a presentation like Mike Lee’s would be, in order: - Shocked silence - Angry shouting - Mike Lee running from the room bleeding chased by an angry mob, because anyone in the caucus under the age of 40 jumped his fat, ugly, rich, [oil-money-bloated](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/industries?cid=N00031696&cycle=2018) ass and started _beating the shit out of him_ - An immediate and successful campaign to recall him and replace him with a congressperson who isn’t scientifically illiterate and horribly corrupt Now, granted, we don’t live in a sane world, and Mike Lee is far from the worst offender. But the blase way that even the people who otherwise know to take this shit seriously are responding to this goddamn _insult_ is just… What? _What_?! You’re going to sit there and let this asshole just piss on your face like that? Even if we cannot expect such a response forthcoming from congress, we could at least expect it the next time he goes to a town hall meeting. Make this fucker feel as afraid as the people who will suffer because of his denialism. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/5 "2019-03-27T10:59:34Z")
I sort of agree with the statement. Sort of… As I do believe in humanity and we are learning to become a species that learns to live in harmony and oneness with the planet, and universe, not in the sense of devolving ourselves, but by going forth with technology and even use terraforming in positive ways instead of the negative way we accidentally discovered via the burning of fossil fuels. But there is more in achieving this… Loved and well raised children will carry forth that ideal, and that required generations of children raised and refining this harmony of love and acceptance and getting the bigger picture. Even realizing the spirit of Love in the spirit of Mother Earth and other habitable places and places with life. So he has part of it correct, we need children, but the part he misses is he doesn’t want open minded and accepting of others children ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/6 "2019-03-27T11:35:07Z")
Sounds like meaningless garbage to me. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/7 "2019-03-27T11:40:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Senator Mike Lee is a reminder that democratic means are utterly insufficient to the scope of the problem we’re faced with. Look at this shit. Seriously - look at this shit! He’s not even trying to form a coherent response to what amounts to a world-defining problem. This is as if a congressman had responded to Russia aiming nukes at the US with, “Eh, just have more kids, there’s no real problem here, your proposal for a disarmament treaty is totally unserious.” It speaks poorly to Mike Lee’s constituents that he holds office, and it speaks poorly to congress as a whole that he wasn’t laughed and/or bodily thrown out of the room. This isn’t a serious argument. He’s not making a serious argument. The point is not for it to be a serious argument. He’s laughing in the face of anyone who gives a damn about the single most pressing issue facing humanity. He is spitting in the faces of our children. Do you have a child under the age of, say, 30? _He is spitting in that child’s face and laughing. Treat it as such_. > > What we are facing amounts to nothing less than gross institutionalized violence. Even if we get our shit together, our inaction to date will lead to suffering beyond measure. If we don’t get our shit together now, it’s only going to get worse. The clock is fucking ticking, and these dirtbags cannot and will not do anything about it. Direct action - taking whatever steps necessary, legal or not, to remove people like Mike Lee, James Inhofe, and Mitch McConnell from positions of power - is necessary. I wish I knew how to pursue such an agenda in a useful manner. These people are aiding and abetting making the world uninhabitable for our children. They cannot be allowed to continue, and as has been shown over the past two decades, just expecting the American people to wake up and vote them out _isn’t fucking good enough_. I don’t think direct advocation of violence is the proper response to an aqua man drawing. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/8 "2019-03-27T11:50:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t think direct advocation of violence is the proper response to an aqua man drawing. How about to encouraging, abetting, and enabling crimes against humanity? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/9 "2019-03-27T12:24:51Z")
The problem is not that the Abrahamic God told his follower to “be fruitful and multiply” and fill the Earth, the problem is that he failed to tell them what to do _after_ they had accomplished that goal. Guys, we were fruitful and multiplied. Now we need to do something before we become a bipedal locust swarm. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/10 "2019-03-27T12:59:16Z")
Sheesh, do I have to do all the thinking around here? You failed to connect the dots. He said " fall in love, get married, and have some kids," The GND is being pushed by a presumably fertile female on the floor of Congress, where she happens to be employed. Not from where she and her _swollen with child_ belly should be cooking dinner for her ol’ man and their gaggle of youngsters. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/11 "2019-03-27T13:15:07Z")
For the record, I tried watching Lee’s argument to the end but I couldn’t - because it was ridiculous and stupid, yes ; but mostly because he was egregiously and deliberately misrepresenting AOC’s plan. The fuckwit spent over 10 minutes showing how the US would be worse off if air travel was banned overnight (FTR, I’m being generous about the thesis of the arguments, in that I posit that there was, in fact, a thesis) ; entirely ignoring that the whole POINT of her plan is to replace the majority of (BUT NOT ALL. She happens to be aware Hawai’i exists, you buffoon) air travel with green-friendlier rail. So that was 10 minutes of solid straw man I’ll never get back. The worst part is, I legit think he thought he was being clever and funny. And that’s really depressing. OTOH, good news : AOC is now at Gandhicon 2 and halfway to 3. Progress ! ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/12 "2019-03-27T13:35:20Z")
No. It’s a ridiculous argument put forth by a ridiculous side of politics. “Gee, we can’t solve climate change now so let’s have lots of white, US children and hope some of them can…derp derp.” ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/13 "2019-03-27T13:48:22Z")
Indirectly, this is definitely true if you view democrats as the saviors of the world. Republicans have 41% more children than democrats do, and 80% of people vote like their parents. > **[The Political Fertility Gap](https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=2344929&page=1)** The common wisdom (or wish) that Republicans are just going to die out is very specious. You know those MAGA-hatted teens? Those aren’t the only ones. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/14 "2019-03-27T13:49:29Z")
He’s campaigning for office in a state where religious doctrine is an element of politics, and it will work. Tris * * * You know how smart the average guy is? Well, half of them are not that smart. ---
**Author:** ![l0k1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@l0k1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/l0k1)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/15 "2019-03-27T15:20:39Z")
Babies are probably not the best way to sequester carbon, even if you immediately land fill them. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/16 "2019-03-27T15:36:52Z")
There are two ways to fight global warming, sacrifice and technology. Sacrifice means using less electricity, steel, concrete, meat, gasoline, etc. In order to be effective sacrifice must be world wide. The US emits 15% of global emissions and that is shrinking. Completely eliminating US carbon emissions alone would not be enough to make a dent in global warming. Technology means using new breakthroughs to use less carbon or reduce existing carbon. According to the Solow model, more population means more economic growth, and more economic growth means more technology. [Countries](https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2118405.pdf?casa_token=J1v_wg4RKakAAAAA:4LbE4U4B9lJJ4hL6bDhlBxQe_KO9OYfcYqyc9WlEOM_ego4KSFM4ocnbRW2-G1FuK_7g0SGXZxy4jNnKbyU4znJtWqSeVgYZNtKoDZjzVyCU6ylDeBk&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)with higher population have more technology. If the US develops new technology for reducing or eliminating carbon then that can be used around the world to and can have a huge impact on global warming. An example, is the technology of fracking which allows new sources of natural gas to replace coal and thus reduce carbon emissions. It was developed in the US and is being used around the world. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/17 "2019-03-27T15:38:57Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > He’s campaigning for office in a state where religious doctrine is an element of politics, and it will work. > > Tris > > * * * > > You know how smart the average guy is? Well, half of them are not that smart. Ah! This explains the meaningless garbagosity of his little dog-and-seahorse show. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/18 "2019-03-27T15:47:12Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Let me be clear. > > In a sane world, the response following a presentation like Mike Lee’s would be, in order: > > - Shocked silence > - Angry shouting > - Mike Lee running from the room bleeding chased by an angry mob, because anyone in the caucus under the age of 40 jumped his fat, ugly, rich, [oil-money-bloated](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/industries?cid=N00031696&cycle=2018) ass and started _beating the shit out of him_ > - An immediate and successful campaign to recall him and replace him with a congressperson who isn’t scientifically illiterate and horribly corrupt Avoid any semblance of a call for violence. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/19 "2019-03-27T16:00:10Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Technology means using new breakthroughs to use less carbon or reduce existing carbon. > According to the Solow model, more population means more economic growth, and more economic growth means more technology. [Countries](https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2118405.pdf?casa_token=J1v_wg4RKakAAAAA:4LbE4U4B9lJJ4hL6bDhlBxQe_KO9OYfcYqyc9WlEOM_ego4KSFM4ocnbRW2-G1FuK_7g0SGXZxy4jNnKbyU4znJtWqSeVgYZNtKoDZjzVyCU6ylDeBk&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)with higher population have more technology. If the US develops new technology for reducing or eliminating carbon then that can be used around the world to and can have a huge impact on global warming. An example, is the technology of fracking which allows new sources of natural gas to replace coal and thus reduce carbon emissions. It was developed in the US and is being used around the world. A nonsensical response which fails to address the question. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Ah! This explains the meaningless garbagosity of his little dog-and-seahorse show. Lee’s diatrabe is meaningless even by Mormon standards. At least Joseph Smith had a narrative; Lee’s presentation was as if someone mashed an old copy of _Unearthed Arcana_ into a Thomas Kinkade as his entry into the science fair, which tells you everything you need to know about the GOP response to climate change, e.g. they are determined to ignore it whenever possible, and ridicule it in all ways subtle and otherwise. You may agree or disagree with the principles set forth in the “Green New Deal” (which, as a resolution with a broad statement of goals hardly qualifies as any kind of policy statement the costs of which can be assessed) but the fact is that the effects of global climate change, along with automation of intellectual labor, aging populations of industrialized nations, and the need to transition away from natural hydrocarbon “fossil” fuels into energy sources that are ultimately sustainable will require radical changes to energy and economic policies. The people on both sides of the aisle arguing that they shouldn’t even consider the ideas of the Green New Deal because they are politically infeasible are ignoring the fact that change will happen whether we prepare for or will it, and nature cares not one wit for ‘rational politics’ or economics. Interestingly, the [Department of Defense is going all in on sustainability and renewable energy](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/603778/the-department-of-defense-wants-to-double-down-on-renewables/), not because they’ve turned into tree-hugging hippies but because energy security is necessary for the military to function. It is interesting that such a conservative institution recognizes the reality and gravity of the effects of climate change while “Conservatives” blather on about Reagan in a dragon-jousting contest. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598/20 "2019-03-27T16:01:39Z")
Yes. Immediately. Well, nine months from now, anyway. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-having-children-solve-climate-change/831598.md?page=2)