# Will Hillary Clinton be the next U.S. President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557 "2015-10-04T23:04:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/221 "2015-10-22T21:34:19Z")
Help me out, here, because I have never really understood the whole Benghazi scandal, and I can’t be bothered to follow this nonsense. Are they saying that somehow Clinton is responsible for the deaths? Or just that she wasn’t completely honest about what the intelligence afterwards? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/222 "2015-10-22T22:10:41Z")
She probably was responsible for their deaths, which she admitted herself, and she did claim it was about a video when it wasn’t and they knew at the time that the attack was a planned assault. They thought that it MIGHT be about the video, and of course since that was the most favorable scenario for them to promote during a close election, they went with that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/223 "2015-10-22T22:39:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She probably was responsible for their deaths, which she admitted herself, Do you have a cite for this (utterly ridiculous) claim? > [@](#): > > and she did claim it was about a video when it wasn’t and they knew at the time that the attack was a planned assault. They thought that it MIGHT be about the video, and of course since that was the most favorable scenario for them to promote during a close election, they went with that. Your first sentence seems to conflict directly with your second. Trey Gowdy thanks you for sharing bullshit Republican talking points. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/224 "2015-10-22T22:57:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you have a cite for this (utterly ridiculous) claim? Clinton has repeatedly ‘accepted responsibility’ for the attack. That’s what someone does when they’re in charge. The victims were part of a diplomatic mission, she was the Secretary of State, so she’s responsible, in the same sense that the President is responsible every time a US soldier is killed. From[today’s New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/23/us/politics/hillary-clinton-benghazi-committee.html): > [@](#): > > Mrs. Clinton recalled the courage of J. Christopher Stevens […] and the three others who died at the mission in Benghazi, and again took responsibility for the attacks in which they died. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/225 "2015-10-22T23:01:29Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > Clinton has repeatedly ‘accepted responsibility’ for the attack. That’s what someone does when they’re in charge. The victims were part of a diplomatic mission, she was the Secretary of State, so she’s responsible, in the same sense that the President is responsible every time a US soldier is killed. > > From[today’s New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/23/us/politics/hillary-clinton-benghazi-committee.html): That’s very different than saying she admitted responsibility for their deaths. Words and word order matter. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/226 "2015-10-22T23:18:32Z")
By that logic, since W was in charge for the 911 attacks, isn’t that automatically his fault? This is completely ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/227 "2015-10-22T23:36:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you have a cite for this (utterly ridiculous) claim? > > . [https://uk.news.yahoo.com/clinton-again-takes-responsibility-benghazi-attack-222028803.html](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/clinton-again-takes-responsibility-benghazi-attack-222028803.html) She not only said it back then, she reiterated it today. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/228 "2015-10-22T23:37:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s very different than saying she admitted responsibility for their deaths. Words and word order matter. So what exactly is she accepting responsibility for? How come when it comes to Clintons you can never take what they say at face value, but have to get into very technical discussions of legalities and grammar? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/229 "2015-10-22T23:38:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [Yahoo is part of the Yahoo family of brands](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/clinton-again-takes-responsibility-benghazi-attack-222028803.html) > > She not only said it back then, she reiterated it today. You said she admitted responsibility for their deaths. That cite does not support this claim (which is, frankly, an utterly ridiculous claim). Words matter – it’s not hard to use the same words she did. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/230 "2015-10-22T23:40:13Z")
“I take responsibility for what happened in Benghazi”. That’s pretty all encompassing, including the deaths of four Americans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/231 "2015-10-22T23:40:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So what exactly is she accepting responsibility for? For putting the people under her in harm’s way, I think. “Buck stops here” type of stuff. That’s not the same thing as admitting responsibility for their deaths (which, frankly, only their killers could say honestly). > [@](#): > > How come when it comes to Clintons you can never take what they say at face value, but have to get into very technical discussions of legalities and grammar? You’re the one who changed the words she used. Why is it that Clinton haters twist their words so much? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/232 "2015-10-22T23:44:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For putting the people under her in harm’s way, I think. “Buck stops here” type of stuff. That’s not the same thing as admitting responsibility for their deaths (which, frankly, only their killers could say honestly) > > You’re the one who changed the words she used. Why is it that Clinton haters twist their words so much? I’m getting the impression that she meant to take responsibility without taking responsibility for anything in particular. Common “leader” stuff. Leaders without quotes actually take responsibility. She took responsibility for “what happened”. The most significant thing that happened was the four deaths. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/233 "2015-10-22T23:46:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m getting the impression that she meant to take responsibility without taking responsibility for anything in particular. Common “leader” stuff. Leaders without quotes actually take responsibility. Show me a leader who literally said that they were responsible for the deaths of those under them after a terrorist attack or similar. Did Bush say that he was responsible for the 9/11 deaths? Did FDR say that he was responsible for the Pearl Harbor deaths? Did Reagan say he was responsible for the Beirut deaths? Show me some examples if you’re saying this is different. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/234 "2015-10-22T23:51:45Z")
If they said they took responsibility then it means what it says. I don’t think Bush or FDR or Reagan ever took responsibility, mainly because there was never any need for them to do so. The government clearly fouled up in the case of Benghazi though, so there was no way to avoid responsibility. So Clinton, and Obama for that matter said the words, so now they live with the consequences of saying those words. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/235 "2015-10-22T23:57:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they said they took responsibility then it means what it says. I don’t think Bush or FDR or Reagan ever took responsibility, mainly because there was never any need for them to do so. The government clearly fouled up in the case of Benghazi though, so there was no way to avoid responsibility. So Clinton, and Obama for that matter said the words, so now they live with the consequences of saying those words. Those words were different than the words you used. And you don’t think the government made any mistakes before 9/11 or the Beirut attacks? Really? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/236 "2015-10-23T00:03:47Z")
Beirut I don’t know. From what I remember there was little experience with foiling truck bombers at that point. 9/11 of course the government screwed up at many points, but I don’t recall Bush taking responsibility for it. Which you can hold against him or not depending on your point of view. It seems to me that the problems were systemic and the Patriot Act addressed some of those systemic failures(like agencies not being allowed to share intelligence). But that’s neither here nor there. Clinton accepted responsibility for “what happened”. I’m not sure how you can claim she did not take responsibility for the fatalities. And if she isn’t, then what exactly is she responsible for? Putting people in harm’s way? Um, they got killed. So yeah, still responsible for their deaths. But if you have an alternative interpretation that makes Clinton responsible for other things not including their deaths, I’m interested in hearing it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/237 "2015-10-23T00:07:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But that’s neither here nor there. Clinton accepted responsibility for “what happened”. I’m not sure how you can claim she did not take responsibility for the fatalities. And if she isn’t, then what exactly is she responsible for? Putting people in harm’s way? Um, they got killed. So yeah, still responsible for their deaths. But if you have an alternative interpretation that makes Clinton responsible for other things not including their deaths, I’m interested in hearing it. I can’t interpret it that way because it’s crazy – only murderers are responsible for murder – I’ve never seen such a statement interpreted that way, or imagined that it could be. As SoS she’s taken responsibility for the orders she gave and policies she instituted, and she’s defended these orders and policies as appropriate given the information she had. “Admitting responsibility for their deaths” would mean admitting wrongdoing, and I’m not aware that she’s admitted any wrongdoing in how she handled the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/238 "2015-10-23T00:07:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Did Reagan say he was responsible for the Beirut deaths? [He did.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/12/28/president-accepts-blame-in-attack-on-marine-base/5e0244af-0fb6-4da7-b1cc-d4a419ac13ce/) > [@Ronald Reagan](#): > > If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with this president. And I accept responsibility for the bad as well as the good. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/239 "2015-10-23T00:11:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they said they took responsibility then it means what it says. I don’t think Bush or FDR or Reagan ever took responsibility, mainly because there was never any need for them to do so. [Ronald Reagan on Beirut in September 1984](http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/ronald-reagans-benghazi): > [@](#): > > President Reagan acknowledged that the new security precautions that had been advocated by Congress hadn’t yet been implemented at the U.S. embassy annex that had been hit. The problem, the President admitted, was that the repairs hadn’t quite been completed on time. As he put it, “Anyone who’s ever had their kitchen done over knows that it never gets done as soon as you wish it would.” Classy. Can you imagine if Obama had said that about Benghazi? And [Caspar Weinberger](http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/30/aide-reagan-left-marines-vulnerable-in-beirut.html)tried desperately to warn Reagan of the danger ahead of time but > [@Weinberger](#): > > I was not persuasive enough to persuade the president that the Marines were there on an impossible mission. > [@Weinberger again](#): > > They had no mission but to sit at the airport, which is just like sitting in a bull’s-eye…I begged the president at least to pull them back and put them back on their transports as a more defensible position. Still think there was no need for him to take responsibility? Back on Hillary: [a number of conservative pundits are less than impressed with the GOP’s performance today](http://www.vox.com/2015/10/22/9600096/clinton-benghazi-hearing). ETA: Damn you people and damn me for my slow typing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/240 "2015-10-23T00:16:09Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > [He did.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/12/28/president-accepts-blame-in-attack-on-marine-base/5e0244af-0fb6-4da7-b1cc-d4a419ac13ce/) That’s pretty similar to what Hillary said, and I don’t interpret that as literally taking responsibility for their deaths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557.md?page=13)