# Will Israel destroy Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 8, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277 "2023-10-08T15:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/221 "2023-10-11T06:31:07Z")
This is why Israel _has to_ destroy Hamas- (warning, some shocking stuff) [Hamas Is Reportedly Using Rape as Warfare. Where Are the Feminists? | Opinion](https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-reportedly-using-rape-warfare-where-are-feminists-opinion-1833599) _Just when you thought the news out of Israel couldn’t get any worse, reports emerged Tuesday morning that 40 [babies had been executed](https://www.jns.org/hamas-terrorists-murdered-40-babies-in-kibbutz-attack/) by the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas. Some of these babies were [reportedly](https://x.com/MattGertz/status/1711784332543627549?s=20) beheaded. Read that again: So-called Palestinian resistance fighters, cowards [targeting the most vulnerable](https://www.jns.org/hamas-terrorists-murdered-40-babies-in-kibbutz-attack/), cut off the heads of babies._ _The report joined [widespread ones of sexual assault](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9GbP1jN-wM) and rape during Hamas’s medieval, ISIS-style [rampage](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/kidnappings-israel-hamas-photographs/675593/). It joined [footage](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/kidnappings-israel-hamas-photographs/675593/) of women abducted with their babies, grandmothers taken hostage and paraded down the streets of Gaza._ ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/222 "2023-10-11T10:37:05Z")
We are just learning about these terrible events but we’re supposed to be concerned about the silence of feminists? Give me a fucking break. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/223 "2023-10-11T14:07:39Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > I’m probably the most consistent supporter of Israel on this board, and have been since I showed up here 24 years ago. > > Impressive, considering that there are, you know, actual Israelis on this board and have been over the past 24 years. The French have an expression for that - “More royalist than the king.” ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/224 "2023-10-11T15:14:04Z")
Where are everybody? Rape is an everybody issue, not a “feminist” one. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/225 "2023-10-11T15:58:11Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > We are just learning about these terrible events but we’re supposed to be concerned about the silence of feminists? I think that article is a very poor way of arguing a point that’s worth making. Those on the left who demonize Israel remain silent on women’s rights and LGBT rights in the Middle East because that picture certainly does not sit well with any black-and-white narrative of evil Israelis vs persecuted victims. The life expectancy of an LGBT person in Gaza (or most places other than Israel) is considerably shorter than in Israel, and not because of differences in living conditions or Israeli airstrikes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/226 "2023-10-11T16:00:19Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > that picture certainly does not sit well with any black-and-white narrative of evil Israelis vs persecuted victims. Absolutely. That narrative is goddamned sickening. There’s a proverb I wrote some years back: _The hordes of hell and the hosts of heaven Trample the peasant’s garden._ ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/227 "2023-10-11T16:30:28Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > No districts. The whole shebang is elected by proportional representation at-large. That’s how come you have all those little fringe parties that mess up coalition-building. My understanding is that unlike the US Israel doesn’t allow citizens (except overseas diplomats) to vote if don’t reside in Israel. If that’s the case then technically settlers shouldn’t be alowed to vote in parliamentary elections. Does Israel actually set up polling stations in the West Bank or do settlers have t vote by mail or travel to Israel proper? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/228 "2023-10-11T16:32:03Z")
In general, people are pretty horrible of taking the stance that there’s different levels of good and bad, and you can have a situation where it’s _small_ bad versus _giant_ bad and there’s no person to stand behind who’s simply “good”. There’s also the problem that Western forward thinkers try to take the stance that traditional, native culture is inherently “good” and that it’s being imperialistic to assert otherwise. That comes from looking back at history and seeing things like Westerners taking children from their parents and sending them to Christian boarding schools, to rid them of their “primitive” culture. That was a bad thing to do and it’s wise to question your internal sense that your own culture is better than that other group’s culture. Personally, I’d distinguish between “culture” like clothing and music choices, and “culture” like “the right of women to choose their partner”. Some of these are benign and others can be demonstrated to produce self-defeating results in practice. Likewise, making that separation, you don’t have to jump to child snatching to push back on the bad elements. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/229 "2023-10-11T16:35:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > If that’s the case then technically settlers shouldn’t be alowed to vote in parliamentary elections. Israel’s election law in 1969 said “there will only be voting on Israeli land” (excepting diplomats and soldiers at sea). But there was an amendment in 1970 that allowed voting by Israelis “whose address is listed in the population registry located in territory held by the Israel Defense Forces.” So West Bank settlers can vote. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/230 "2023-10-11T16:42:33Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > There’s also the problem that Western forward thinkers try to take the stance that traditional, native culture is inherently “good” and that it’s being imperialistic to assert otherwise. It’s a hypercorrection from imperialism and racism, and ends up being just as much a fallacy of composition. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/231 "2023-10-11T18:02:35Z")
> **[1.1M in northern Gaza should evacuate within 24 hours, Israel tells U.N.;...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-war-updates-gaza-attack/#link-EVWVIZWQBNBJVCM6FWYMMEGQCU)** > > The United Nations considers such a mass movement impossible “without devastating humanitarian consequences,” spokesman Stéphane Dujarric said in a statement. > [@](#): > > Hamas called on “Arab and Islamic nations as well as the international community” to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza. > > In a statement, Hamas said Gaza was in need of fuel, food and medical supplies, as well as equipment to rescue people from under rubble. > … > Hamas accused Israel of targeting residential areas and medical centers, and said that barring food and medical supplies from entering Gaza was a “gruesome act that amounts to war crimes and genocide.” Hamas, two choices: 1. Immediately release all hostages, turn over all weaponry, and surrender all leaders and soldiers involved in the atrocities, _then_ call on the international community to assist Gaza and criticize Israel’s war crimes. 2. Man, just shut the fuck up. I’m deeply troubled by the siege, by the reports of ruined hospitals, by the destruction of water supplies, by the mass bombing of places where there are civilians. And literally the last people on earth–behind Putin, behind Trump, behind Neo-nazis on death row–that I want to hear sharing my concerns are the murderers over at Hamas. If anyone has ever in all history lost their right to complain about war crimes, it’s them. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/232 "2023-10-11T18:23:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’m just not persuaded that any course of action on the Palestinians’ part would realistically result in non-suckiness to the extent of the Israeli leadership’s taking any meaningful steps to recognize rights or sovereignty for Palestinians. Doesn’t matter if they got rid of Hamas, if they all became sworn pacifists, whatever. None of that would change the determination of Israeli expansionists—who, alas, seem to be the ones shaping the major policy decisions—to establish full Israeli sovereignty over all Palestinian territory, with only Israelis having any recognized rights there. Might, however, change the relative political power of said expansionists within Israel. Which would change their ability to do such things. The current situation is a thoroughly screwed-up mess and I’m not at all sure that there is any way out of it. (Whenever somebody says, What would God have to do to convince you that God’s real, I always want to say “Make peace in the Middle East, by some technique other than killing or brain-deadening all the humans there.”) But if there is: I think it has to come through the people on all sides who want to be able to live their lives and to let their kids / their neighbors’ kids grow up without so many funerals. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The hordes of hell and > the hosts of heaven > Trample the peasant’s garden. That’s for sure. Often the rich guy’s garden, too; but the rich guys often seem to think they’ll be exempt (and sometimes pull it off). The peasants know better. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In general, people are pretty horrible of taking the stance that there’s different levels of good and bad, and you can have a situation where it’s _small_ bad versus _giant_ bad and there’s no person to stand behind who’s simply “good”. Yeah. “There is no good thing to do here; including doing nothing. Pick the least bad thing, but remain aware that it’s a bad thing” is really, really hard for most people to accept. Once we decide that we have to do the bad thing, we want to define it as a good thing. And there is the genuine slippery slope into hell for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/233 "2023-10-11T18:27:33Z")
I hope Israel wipes out Hamas, but also hope Israel has something of a “you break it, you buy it” approach. They were the ones who helped create the Gaza Strip festering pot of rage and suffering to begin with, so once they wipe out Hamas, they owe it to fix the place, what was termed the world’s largest open-air prison. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/234 "2023-10-11T18:35:44Z")
How much of the billions in aid poured into Gaza over the years came from Israel? If they were not supplying it then, then they are definitely not going to start now, and the people know it, as @Kimstu explained. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/235 "2023-10-11T19:01:00Z")
I originally posted this in the breaking news thread, but it probably belongs here instead: > [@Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/327): > > I don’t see how Hamas could use a nuclear weapon against Israel without killing many of their coreligionists. I don’t see how they even care. IMO, the whole point of the attacks on music festival goers and other civilians was to provoke a huge response and get lots of Palestinian civilians killed. The leaders of Hamas don’t give a toss for their own civilians; they want full and complete control over the territory, and the money and power that will bring them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/236 "2023-10-11T20:15:05Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think that article is a very poor way of arguing a point that’s worth making. Those on the left who demonize Israel remain silent on women’s rights and LGBT rights in the Middle East because that picture certainly does not sit well with any black-and-white narrative of evil Israelis vs persecuted victims. The life expectancy of an LGBT person in Gaza (or most places other than Israel) is considerably shorter than in Israel, and not because of differences in living conditions or Israeli airstrikes. Right. Mind you, sure there are valid criticisms to be made against Israel. But I have little sympathy of the palestinians as a whole. They made their bed, now they have to lie in it. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hamas called on “Arab and Islamic nations as well as the international community” to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza. Thats funny, since to me, Hamas no longer qualifies as “human”. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hamas accused Israel of targeting residential areas and medical centers, and said that barring food and medical supplies from entering Gaza was a “gruesome act that amounts to war crimes and genocide.” “My arent you black and sooty said the pot to the kettle.” > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If anyone has ever in all history lost their right to complain about war crimes, it’s them. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/237 "2023-10-11T20:33:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Thats funny, since to me, Hamas no longer qualifies as “human”. First, the humanitarian aid under discussion is supposed to go to Palestinian civilians, not Hamas. The reality that Hamas may seize and use the funds for terror is certainly something to consider when deciding on whether to send aid and in what form, but that’s different than declaring that the Palestinians under Hamas’ control do not deserve to be treated as humans. As for Hamas themselves… Whatever the crimes of Hamas, they are human. So were the Nazis. So is ISIS. However atrocious and horrendous their acts are, they remain human. Remember well what it is that _humans_ are capable of doing to their fellows. The brutality and the bloodlust that they can display towards their own kind. Hamas is the worst humanity had to offer, but it is still of humanity. To me, that’s far more horrifying than it would be if they were demons or monsters. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/238 "2023-10-11T20:34:20Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’m not at all sure that there is any way out of it. I absolutely believe this as well and, even though the whole situation has a series of catalysts back through history (and I can understand why the Palestinians are pissed off), there’s enough blame for everybody, though what Hamas just did is absolutely vile and appalling and, as someone mentioned somewhere, ISIS-level atrocities. So I certainly can understand why Israel is probably feeling vengeful as hell (I assume that they are) and the only way this will ever be fixed is if the various parties (except Hamas in this case) are willing to give up their rightful feelings of victimhood and desire for compensation, and all sacrifice enough to have peace. I don’t believe that that’s ever going to happen. Will Israel destroy Hamas? I don’t think so. They might successfully kill all the foot soldiers and a shit load of Palestinians. I would not be surprised if a move into Gaza is extremely violent, vengeful and almost totally destructive. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/239 "2023-10-11T20:51:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > First, the humanitarian aid under discussion is supposed to go to Palestinian civilians, not Hamas. Yes, in theory. In reality, I suspect that most of the aid would be commandeered by those with the guns. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/240 "2023-10-11T20:52:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Thats funny, since to me, Hamas no longer qualifies as “human”. Oh, they’re human. They’re all too human. We have to own this: this is a thing that humans do. Not everybody, and not all the time. We’re also the creature that risks its own life to save somebody elses’ babies, sometimes when the somebody else is even a different species. But all human societies are vulnerable to it, and saying that we’re not is fucking dangerous. If we won’t own it, then we can’t prevent it. I think we have to kill them: the humans who are Hamas. But only because I think in this case it’s the least bad thing. It’s still a bad thing. It’s still a terrible thing. No matter how necessary it is, we need to remember how terrible it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277.md?page=13)