# Will Israel destroy Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 8, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277 "2023-10-08T15:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/321 "2023-10-13T02:30:19Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This of course would mean executing those who Israel captures. Totally unacceptable. IIRC, genocide against the Jewish people is punishable by death under Israeli law. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/322 "2023-10-13T03:06:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Eta: let me clarify, I don’t think it’s a good idea. Strategically it will not weaken Hamas, there’s no way the Palestinian public blames Hamas over Israel for the situation, and it will hurt some people, regardless of how long the shutoff lasts. But I also don’t think it’s a situation that’s going to last weeks and lead to thousands dead, because Israel will send in troops long before that. Let me also clarify that I agree with this. My statement regarding tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths was meant to say a short term shut off wasn’t going to convince Hamas to release the hostages, and that the only way it would reach the point where Hamas sees the toll as too high, is way beyond the point at which it became an obvious war crime (and probably result in Hamas killing the hostages in retaliation anyway) so that such a tactic was doomed from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/323 "2023-10-13T03:07:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But I also don’t think it’s a situation that’s going to last weeks and lead to thousands dead, because Israel will send in troops long before that. I’m not sure what level of water supply Gaza has but, as said, death by dehydration isn’t a “weeks” deal. If Netanyahu has wrongly estimated the water stores of Gaza, it’s going to go real bad real quick and enough so that it’s not worth playing around with. If I was Biden or Macron, I’d be sending a water tanker and have a message ready for Bibi telling him to back off and let supplies be delivered. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/324 "2023-10-13T03:15:16Z")
You realize that the Hamas terrorists would be the ones taking any supplies? That is how they maintain power and are able to produce the weapons and fortifications used to terrorize the populace of Israel and then retreat to with their victims. This is now a war in which willful myopia is being discarded. It is a war between two incompatible sets of base principles. A siege cutting off supplies in order to weaken the political and military structure of the adversary is part of war. When the US fights do you think we are shipping in a tanker of water to our adversaries in Fallujah for example? It is the responsibility of Hamas to make a distinction between civilian and military. They are deliberately doing the opposite. That’s on Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/325 "2023-10-13T03:31:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You realize that the Hamas terrorists would be the ones taking any supplies? What do you imagine they are going to do with food and water? Make the IDF overweight? Drown them? > [@octopus](#): > > A siege cutting off supplies in order to weaken the political and military structure of the adversary is part of war. Somehow, I don’t trust your understanding of the laws and customs of war on land. > [@octopus](#): > > When the US fights do you think we are shipping in a tanker of water to our adversaries in Fallujah for example? You sure that’s the example you want to use? The [battle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah) where > The military used leaflets and broadcasts to encourage civilians to leave the city before the assault. > > U.S. military officials estimated that 70–90% of the 300,000 civilians in the city fled before the attack, leaving 30,000 to 90,000 civilians still in the city. There are some glaringly obvious differences between that and the current situation in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/326 "2023-10-13T03:32:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You realize that the Hamas terrorists would be the ones taking any supplies? Yes. And the supplies won’t nicely dry out equally across the region. There will be certain access points that can be taken and monopolized by the strong. Hunger is, perhaps, a weapon that you can use to smoke out Hamas. Water, if misjudged, is going to almost purely kill the innocent. For much of that, Hamas will be partially complicit but that isn’t going to make the people of Israel feel any better about what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/327 "2023-10-13T04:04:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > On a side note, IIRC, the number of total Israeli casualties in Yom Kippur was about 2,800. I doubt that Israel’s counter-offensive would see 1,600 IDF deaths but there is some possibility that this could go down as the greatest loss-of-Israeli-life war in Israel history. Israeli deaths in the [1948 Arab-Israeli War/War of Independence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) were 6,373, about 4,000 military and 2,400 civilians, but your point is well made. I was quite surprised at the number of Israeli military deaths when reports started coming out, initially being 169 IIRC and the current number apparently being 247. Military deaths that high at the hands of what is a paramilitary terrorist group speak to just how massive of an intelligence failure and fuck up this was and could kill any political future for Netanyahu after the crisis has passed and irrevocably tarnish his legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/328 "2023-10-13T05:55:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’d expect the goal to be that desperate people turn in members of Hamas and reveal their locations. How are they supposed to do that? They can’t charge their phones! ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/329 "2023-10-13T11:59:50Z")
Now this is just fucked up, and does no favors to Israel’s cause: > **[Palestinians flee northern Gaza after Israel orders 1 million to evacuate as...](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-c8b4fc20e4fd2ef381d5edb7e9e8308c)** > > Palestinians began a mass exodus Friday from northern Gaza after Israel’s military told some 1 million people to evacuate toward the southern part of the besieged territory. > JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel’s military told some 1 million Palestinians on Friday to evacuate northern Gaza and head to the southern part of the besieged territory, an unprecedented order applying to almost half the population ahead of [an expected ground invasion](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-military-ground-reoccupation-3e6f08a75643b21e41a498277e84b5b9) against the ruling Hamas militant group. > > The U.N. warned that so many people fleeing en masse — with just a 24-hour deadline — would be calamitous. Telling the 50% of the population in the north of Gaza they have 24 hours to evacuate to the southern half of one of the most densely populated locations on the planet is both a logistical impossibility and would cause a humanitarian nightmare. It’s as if Israel is determined to lose what should be the easy win, the propaganda war on the international stage. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/330 "2023-10-13T12:21:15Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > It’s as if Israel is determined to lose what should be the easy win, the propaganda war on the international stage. It seems to me that Netanyahu and the IDF leaders believe that the attack has wiped away all standards of warfare, that the only way to fight terrorists is through genocidal actions. > [@octopus](#): > > A siege cutting off supplies in order to weaken the political and military structure of the adversary is part of war. Inasmuch as war crimes are part of war, absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/331 "2023-10-13T12:35:22Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > It’s as if Israel is determined to lose what should be the easy win, the propaganda war on the international stage. I don’t think Israel gives a rat’s ass about anything other than safety of their citizens right now. Any price any action is justified to the vast majority across the political spectrum. It is understandable. Wrong. Shortsighted. But understandable. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/332 "2023-10-13T13:27:59Z")
FWIW. > **[Israel Is Walking Into a Trap — The Atlantic](https://apple.news/AIk0WY67mSZOAFd19isVx4g)** > > Storming into Gaza will fulfill Hamas’s wish. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/333 "2023-10-13T13:35:11Z")
Don’t suppose you have a guest link, or can summarize the article? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/334 "2023-10-13T13:49:35Z")
Huh. I get it for free just on Apple News as a sample. Here is a bit of it. > [@](#): > > Hamas’s leaders and their Iranian backers have a conscious strategy. Like almost all other acts of spectacularly bloodthirsty terrorism, Hamas’s assault on southern Israel was designed to provoke an emotional and equally or even more outrageous response by the targeted society. Hamas and Iran are attempting to goad the Israelis into Gaza for a prolonged confrontation—which is to say that the intended effect is precisely the ground assault Israel is now preparing in order to root out and destroy Hamas as an organization, kill its cadres and leadership, and destroy as much of its infrastructure and equipment as possible. … > > … Hamas evidently decided to destroy that status quo, which was no longer serving its interests. The Islamist group also hopes to seize control of the Palestinian national movement from its secular Fatah rivals, who dominate the Palestinian Authority and, more important, the Palestine Liberation Organization, which is the internationally recognized representative of the Palestinian people. … > > … > Israel appears poised to fulfill Hamas’s intentions. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed retaliation that will “reverberate for generations” among Israel’s adversaries. The Israeli general Ghassan Aliyan warned, “You wanted hell—you will get hell.” Defense Minister Yoav Gallant declared, “We are fighting human animals, and we act accordingly.” None of these speakers made any effort to distinguish between Hamas militants and the 2 million Palestinian civilians in Gaza. The “human animals” comment is telling. > …. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/335 "2023-10-13T13:54:19Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > . It’s as if Israel is determined to lose what should be the easy win, the propaganda war on the international stage. I had the same thought. I fear that in the end Israel will be more isolated than before. Learn from the US- 9/11 drew us into 20 years of mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/336 "2023-10-13T14:19:56Z")
I don’t have a subscription…does the author offer Israel any viable alternative to storming Gaza with a ground assault? It sounds like one of those “Option XYZ is bad” articles (but without offering any alternative, kind of like someone saying that chemotherapy is bad for the body…in a situation where the cancer can only be treated by chemo) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/337 "2023-10-13T14:23:48Z")
So long as the fascists run Israel, they will only kill off Palestinians as much as possible, and push them into the arms of Hamas. Hamas is the mirror image of Likud, and the creature of Likud. We have to stop normalizing Likud. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/338 "2023-10-13T14:49:55Z")
Bombing is a form of killing, maiming, and property destruction. And it’s a bold claim indeed to say that IDF forces don’t engage in other forms of mayhem, that they don’t parade their brutality, or that they never rape anyone. What we saw from Hamas is what’s called “payback.” Israelis can dish it out all day, but they get back a fraction of what they dish out and suddenly they want us to think they’re the poor innocent victims. Do not fall for this. “Right-wing” (fascist) Israeli governments decided to pull Jewish residents from Gaza, to isolate Gaza, to leave Gaza in the hands of Hamas for a generation. They could have re-entered. They chose bombs and bombs and more bombs instead. And these are the kind of Israeli leaders who explicitly hold that Arabs are subhuman. The lives lost on both sides are on their heads as much as on Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/339 "2023-10-13T14:53:03Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > What we saw from Hamas is what’s called “payback.” No. Payback is when you hit the people who hit you. Murder is what it’s called when you hit children and other innocent victims. It’s mass murder, terrorism, atrocity. Nothing Israel’s government could possibly do would ever justify murdering children–just as nothing Hamas could possibly do would ever justify murdering children. That’s a bright fucking line. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/340 "2023-10-13T14:57:25Z")
Hamas is lucky to have such staunch allies in the West, who will make excuses for the cold blooded butchery of children. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277.md?page=18)