# Will Israel destroy Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 8, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277 "2023-10-08T15:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/462 "2023-11-01T20:48:17Z")
No, where did you get that? I’m not even saying he is right wing. My sole point was that this is an opinion piece that was trying to lead the reader to a particular point of view, rather than purely a Ken Burns style documentary of the history of Israel, so it shouldn’t be used as the sole source for understanding the issues involved. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/463 "2023-11-01T20:59:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > All I can say is that for a article that is making an argument that is independent of political status he sure uses “leftist” a lot I don’t know what to tell you - this is definitely an issue of the left (again, in the west) and not the right (who have their own problems, such as the whole “you and him fight” mentality I’ve repeatedly called out). > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > My sole point was that this is an opinion piece that was trying to lead the reader to a particular point of view, rather than purely a Ken Burns style documentary of the history of Israel, so it shouldn’t be used as the sole source for understanding the issues involved It’s not trying to be the sole source for understanding the entire situation. It’s a refutation of one specific argument. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/464 "2023-11-01T21:07:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It’s not trying to be the sole source for understanding the entire situation. It’s a refutation of one specific argument. I agree and said so **repeatedly**. It is a fine article for what it is which is an informed opinion piece trying to argue a specific point of view. The only thing that sent me down the rabbit hole, which I am deeply regretting ever entering, was this comment > [@Ferris](#): > > Thanks for the link - I read it with interest, and it does a good job of explaining some of the complicated history and politics involved. And I just wanted to make sure that Ferris knew that it was written from a pro-Israel perspective, and that another author may have an equally factually accurate account that shaded things differently. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/465 "2023-11-01T22:54:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Best that I could tell, at no point did he say that all academics, students, artists and activists condoned the attack No, I didn’t say that he did; hence my remark about “selective omission” rather than “explicit denial”. > [@Alessan](#): > > nor did he say that everyone who condoned the attack was a academics, students, artists and activists. No, I didn’t say that he did, just that those four classic right-wing boogeyman figures were the only types of people that he mentioned in this context. > [@Alessan](#): > > Or do you have some sort of insight into the mind of renowned author and academic Simon Sebag Montefiore that lets you know what he “really” means? I’m not making any claims whatsoever about what Sebag Montefiore “really means”, just about the impressions conveyed by what he chose to say. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/466 "2023-11-02T10:50:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’m not making any claims whatsoever about what Sebag Montefiore “really means”, just about the impressions conveyed by what he chose to say. And I think that the the well of American political discourse is so deeply poisoned that as a nation, you are no longer capable of rational thought. You’re so obsessed with subtext that the actual text might as well not exist. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/467 "2023-11-02T11:24:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is a rebuttal to _one specific_ anti-Israel argument - the one that claims that Israel is a colonialist regime and that decolonialization requires the Jews to be removed from Israel and sent “back” to where they came from. Those are two arguments - one can agree with one (that Israel is a colonialist regime) and yet disagree with the other (that decolonization requires Jews be removed from Israel). > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > there’s nobody with even the slightest smidgen of power who seriously thinks that any colonized land is going to be handed back _in toto_ or even in large part to the descendants of the folks who lived there prior to colonization. Well, [Zimbabwe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe)… and [South Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_South_Africa#2019_reform) sometime in the future, probably. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/468 "2023-11-02T12:09:04Z")
I do not know how much of it was _official_ policy, but, while there were a lot of efforts to help Jews to move to Israel in the early 1950s, if anything there were no analogous efforts to encourage Palestinians to move (or move back) to Israel, quite the contrary. That would have been a good time to put a pin in the looming situation, but, as is eternally the case everywhere, the politicians did not want to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/469 "2023-11-02T12:13:16Z")
It definitely would have been a good time to permanently resettle them in other countries, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/470 "2023-11-02T12:31:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Well, [Zimbabwe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe)… and [South Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_South_Africa#2019_reform) sometime in the future, probably. Oof, fair. It’s just barely possible that we Americans don’t know enough about the rest of the world’s history sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/471 "2023-11-02T14:46:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Maybe you should stop looking for implications that aren’t there and just take the sentence at face value. Best that I could tell, at no point did he say that all academics, students, artists and activists condoned the attack, nor did he say that everyone who condoned the attack was a academics, students, artists and activists. Or do you have some sort of insight into the mind of renowned author and academic Simon Sebag Montefiore that lets you know what he “really” means? The sentence was _“since October 7, Western academics, students, artists, and activists have denied, excused, or even celebrated the murders by a terrorist sect”_. This is poisoning the well in multiple ways. Firstly, since there are no constraints here, the implication is that we’re talking about _many_ people; that probably a _majority_ of people belonging to those groups and speaking on this issue are taking this position. I honestly haven’t heard _anyone_ deny the Hamas atrocities so far and as far as I could read the article, it provides no such cites (the archive version didn’t work for me, I could only read up to the paywall). Secondly, why are we even talking about these groups? It’s clearly trying to paint a picture of people without _real_ jobs taking these heinous views. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/472 "2023-11-02T18:20:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Well, [Zimbabwe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe)… and [South Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_South_Africa#2019_reform) sometime in the future, probably. Zimbabwe land reforms were rife with corruption, and a total failure. Before there were economies of scale, and that nation exported massive amounts of food. Now, people are starving. And now, They are allowing White folks who the land was seized from the reclaim it. In other words- a total failure. Same thing happened in quite a few nations, where land reform, ie splitting up the plantations and giving each farmer a smallish plot - failed utterly. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/473 "2023-11-02T18:23:59Z")
Where did **LHoD** say anything about the handing back having to be successful? What does any of this have to do with what we were talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/474 "2023-11-02T18:25:38Z")
An amazing non-response! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/475 "2023-11-02T19:50:35Z")
**Moderating** End the Zimbabwe hijack now. Start a new thread if you want to discuss this. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/476 "2023-11-30T18:55:08Z")
So, the cease fire, eh? > **[Two Hamas gunmen open fire at Jerusalem bus stop, killing three](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/shooting-attack-jerusalem-wounds-least-6-ambulance-service-2023-11-30/)** > > Two Hamas gunmen killed three people at a Jerusalem bus stop during morning rush hour on Thursday, and Israel reiterated its commitment to wiping out the Palestinian Islamist faction, whose Oct. 7 killing spree triggered the Gaza war. JERUSALEM, Nov 30 (Reuters) - _Two Hamas gunmen killed three people at a Jerusalem bus stop during morning rush hour on Thursday, and Israel reiterated its commitment to wiping out the Palestinian Islamist faction, whose Oct. 7 killing spree triggered the Gaza war._ _The attackers, Palestinians from East Jerusalem, were shot dead by off-duty soldiers and an armed civilian, police said. At least eight people were also wounded in the shooting._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/477 "2023-12-03T21:09:56Z")
Why do Muslim American support Hamas? Makes no sense to me? > **[Muslim Americans face 'Abandon Biden' dilemma - then who?](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/muslim-americans-face-abandon-biden-dilemma-then-who-2023-12-02/)** > > Muslim Americans said they did not expect Trump to treat their community any better if reelected, but saw denying Biden votes their only means to shape U.S. policy. Small shifts in support could make a difference in states Biden won by narrow margins... _Dec 2 (Reuters) - Muslim American leaders from six battleground states on Saturday vowed to mobilize their communities against President Joe Biden’s reelection over his support of Israel’s war in Gaza, but they have yet to settle on an alternative 2024 candidate._ And Biden has pushed for a cease fire- what do they want that Biden can deliver? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/478 "2023-12-03T21:16:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why do Muslim American support Hamas? …can you quote the specific parts of the article that states “Muslim American support Hamas?” The article requires me to sign in to read it and I couldn’t see it in the preview. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/479 "2023-12-03T21:28:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …can you quote the specific parts of the article that states “Muslim American support Hamas?” The article requires me to sign in to read it and I couldn’t see it in the preview. Heres another cite- > **[Angered by Biden’s stance on Israel, US Muslims pledge to ditch him in 2024](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/3/us-muslims-pledge-to-ditch-biden-in-2024-over-his-stance-on-israel-gaza-war)** > > Muslims in key states launch #AbandonBiden campaign over US president’s refusal to call for a ceasefire in Gaza. They demand that Biden demand a permanent cease fire. Which supports Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/480 "2023-12-03T21:33:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And Biden has pushed for a cease fire- what do they want that Biden can deliver? … but he _hasn’t_ pushed for a cease fire. It’s one of the things people have been asking him to do for the last 58 days. They want Biden to actually call for a ceasefire. They want him to “turn off the tap.” They want the bombing and death and destruction in Gaza to stop. They consider what is happening in Gaza to be genocidal, and that Biden is _complicit_ in that genocide. > [@DrDeth](#): > > They demand that Biden demand a permanent cease fire. Which supports Hamas. This is a _different_ claim. Can you provide a cite to support the claim that “Muslim American support Hamas?” Because I too demand a ceasefire (permanent being a word used to characterize the calls, but not actually used in the calls that you cited) . But I don’t support Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277/481 "2023-12-03T21:41:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which supports Hamas. Guess I’m a Hamas supporter now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-israel-destroy-hamas/991277.md?page=25)