…feel free to elaborate.
Bolded, since you apparently missed it the first time.
ETA: Going to bed now. Might or might not come back into the thread tomorrow.
Well then I guess the kidnapping and murder of Jewish civilians will continue then.
Who invaded Israel? Hamas. Hamas was indeed hiding terrorists in hospitals and tunnels under them. Who chopped babies heads off- Hamas. Who murdered pregnant in horrible ways and celebrated it? Hamas? Who killed over 1000 Israeli civilians- Hamas.
The UN has only verified some 6600 palestinians killed in total. So, 6000 children is a Hamas propaganda figure, the US says about 1500, almost all boys, many of whom may well have been Hamas terrorists. And Hamas was killing babies with machetes, up close and personal on purpose. No doubt some childrens were inadvertently killed by Israeli bombing, especially as Hamas uses them as human shields and recruits older boys to fight.
Child Recruitment | Defense for Children Palestine.
DCIP has documented Palestinian armed groups recruiting and using Palestinian children during active hostilities, often during active hostilities with Israel.
The Hamas charter openly calls for Genocide-
Hamas Charter - Wikipedia
The original Charter identifies Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who “fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors”. The charter states that “our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious” and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.[4][5]… * Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.[1]… 1. Destroying Israel and establishing an Islamic theocracy in Palestine is essential;[46]
2. Unrestrained jihad is necessary to achieve this;[46]
3. Negotiated resolutions of Jewish and Palestinian claims to the land are unacceptable
And also says that negotiation is wrong.
…from Amnesty International, 2008:
From 2022:
I condemn the actions of Hamas. I condemn the kidnapping and murder of Jewish civilians.
Do you condemn the administrative detention and torture of Palestinians by representatives of the state of Israel?
Because I think we are on the same page here. I just want to make sure.
No, it means- 'when Israel is destroyed" .
Nice, you “All Lives Matter’d” all over that.
…irrelevant to my point.
I think if what they meant to say was “when Israel is destroyed”, they should have said that. But that wasn’t what they said.
One side openly calls for genocide, yet that is irrelevant?
Indeed they did, in a public statement.
…to what you quoted of me?
Yup.
Not in the public statement I quoted.
I certainly do condemn war crimes by all countries, governments and terrorists.
What I don’t think will work is a unilateral ceasefire by one side, while there is no ability to have one on the other side. This is more typically called “surrender “. Which in Israel s case would mean total eradication and extermination of all Jews in the region.
WHO would enforce a ceasefire on the Palestinian side?
…Do you condemn the administrative detention and torture of Palestinians by representatives of the state of Israel?
Do you agree that administrative detention is bad, and that everybody currently held in Israel without charge or “convicted” using secret evidence that the convicted never got the chance to see should be released?
You know that Israel shot and killed people trying to get to their homes in the north at the start of the pause, right? Why are you just worried about one side but not the other? It takes two to tango.
This is not typically called surrender. They didn’t call it surrender during the pause. They didn’t call it surrender every other time they’ve negotiated a ceasefire. It’s never typically called surrender. Israel have killed over 14,800 people. They’ve displaced 1.7 million people from their homes. They taken out of action all of the hospitals in the north. They have complete air supremacy. Almost all of the civilian infrastructure is destroyed. Rubbish and waste services stopped today.
Are you really claiming that if Israel stopped bombing today, that this would be surrender? When millions of Gazan would still literally be under siege?
You really think if Israel were to stop bombing today that would mean total eradication and extermination of all Jews in the region?
Because the siege still won’t have been lifted. Famine, disease, covid. Simple basic healthcare. If the bombing stopped tomorrow, these things don’t magically suddenly get fixed. The borders won’t suddenly get opened. Gazans will still be condemned to just die.
It’s also not gonna happen while Netanyahu is in power.
Not really taking a side in the argument, but I think this is relevant.
I think “all countries, governments and terrorists” covers that. I’m not sure why you’re confused.
Are you really claiming that if Israel stopped bombing today, that this would be surrender? When millions of Gazan would still literally be under siege?
I believe I was referring to a “permanent ceasefire” Yes, the bombing of Gaza should stop today. No, there cannot be a permanent ceasefire while there is one faction that simply will not honor a ceasefire, and lacks the capacity to enforce a ceasefire. I hope this clarifies things for you.
…i’m not confused.
I just think it’s extremely telling how people refuse to directly call out Israel’s atrocities.
A permanent ceasefire is just a technical term to describe what happens after a preliminary ceasefire. Its a negotiated agreement after a successful political process. It can be many things, but one of the things it certainly isn’t is a surrender.
Again, the UN figures show a number less than half of that.
Well, that is a good point.
A US president would never demand or pressure for an Israeli ceasefire because of the likelihood they’d have to face up to that demand the next time there’s a terrorist strike/atrocity involving the US.
…the UN don’t have the capacity to collate the numbers on their own. Just like everyone else, they rely on the numbers from the Gazan ministries, that have been independently verified, and have in the past been found to be broadly accurate. Considering that hundreds, probably thousands are still trapped or dead under the rubble, and that this was the number from over a week ago, most experts think the numbers are an undercount. There were 700 deaths reported yesterday. So its 15-16,000 people at least right now.
The Government Media Office is a propaganda tool of Hamas. It does not reflect actual UN figures. I cited above the UN cite.
…and the numbers have been independently verified, have been broadly accurate in the past, and is being used by everyone, including the US State Department.
This thread has 456 posts in it. If you want to refute my number, it would be helpful to include your cite again because finding it in this thread is not an easy process.