If people are demanding a unlimited cease fire, then in effect, they are pro-hamas.
It’s like asking for a cease fire after Hitler invades Poland. Hamas invaded israel. Then raped, killed and brutalized many Israelis.
No cease fire, only unconditional surrender.
This is quite a take, and I’ll give it all the attention it deserves.
The issue with any “cease fire” is that it is totally one sided. Israel will stop the bombing etc. Hamas will continue to kill, dig tunnels, rape and torture their hostages and so forth. This was shown during the last cease fire,
So asking for a cease fire that only Israel will be bound by is really asking for aid to Hamas- time for them to get their terrorists to safety, get the hostages out of the reach of the iDF= and continue their terrorism as if there was no ceasefire.
And Hamas on their best day could not kill a tenth the amount of innocents Israel has killed so far.
I doubt that, and the difference is Hamas deliberately kills those innocents, and then uses them as human shields when the IDF strikes back.
The IDF wants to kill terrorists. Hamas wants to kill all Jews. See the difference?
There is zero difference, what they want counts for absolutely nothing. Israel has already killed more than ten times more innocents than Hamas did.
No.
What the Germans did during the Holocaust was a war crime and a crime against humanity. What the allies did by bombing was not. (altho I will accept that some bombings came close, when we bombed the ball bearing factories or the oil fields, no doubt civilians died, but they were legit war targets)
And i am waiting for a cite- and not a cite from Hamas.
…what you claim the IDF “wants” isn’t relevant here. The IDF isn’t a sentient being. It doesn’t “want” things.
What matters is what its actually doing. And what the IDF has done in Gaza is destroy essential infrastructure, kill over 20,000 people, most of them women and children. It has destroyed churches and Mosques and universities and government buildings and apartment blocks. It has razed crops and destroyed cemeteries and damaged refugee camps and UN shelters and schools. The IDF have taken out of action over twenty hospitals, there are no functional hospitals in the north, the healthcare system in Gaza has essentially been bought to its knees by the IDF. The siege has bought Gaza to the brink of famine, hundreds of thousands of people are starving, disease and infection are running rampant. Just under 2 million out of 2.3 million people are displaced. And according to the last updated flash report, half of those people are now in Rafah.
This isn’t the actions of an army that “just wants to kill terrorists.”
When the terrorists have their headquarters in those buildings, or arm caches, or massive tunnels underneath, they become legit targets. And when Hamas uses civilians- mostly women and children - as human shields- that’s on them. Or when Hamas recruits young boys as terrorists- they they are terrorist, even though they may be 17yo children. The Nazi army recruited kids as young as 16, but then a 17yo is shooting at you, they are an enemy not a child… The fact the Hams recruits children is on them, not the IDF.
You just dont get that Hamas has no ethics or morals. They WANT the IDF to kill innocent women and children. That makes for great publicity. The hide their terrorists and weapons in hospitals.
The Palestinian people can stop supporting terrorism and Hamas any time they want, and the killing will stop. This started due to an unprovoked attack by Hamas on the innocent civilian people of Israel. Women were raped and killed. Babies were decapitated. And Hamas celebrated those acts.
What is Israel supposed to do? Let Hamas kills, rape kidnap and terrorize? Hamas started this.
Note that Hamas has officially stated they want to kill all Jews.
…what headquarters? Which arms caches? Which massive tunnels?
They haven’t eventuated. Not in the areas that have been targeted. Not in the hospitals, not in the schools, not in the churches, not in the Mosques, not in the fields that have been razed, not in the cemeteries that have been destroyed.
They aren’t legit targets.
Again, another assertion without evidence. How many Hamas soldiers have been killed so far in this war? 100 people were killed a few days ago in Jabalia. How many of them were Hamas? Give me the number.
These are just rhetorical talking points.
Hamas aren’t responsible for the siege on Gaza that is starving hundreds of thousands of people and has already started to kill many of them. Over 70 days of siege. This is a war crime by Israel.
Hamas aren’t responsible for shutting down 20 hospitals in Gaza and bringing the healthcare system to the brink of collapse. These are war crimes by Israel.
The way the IDF have conducted this war is without ethics and morals. Its almost as if they want to kill innocent women and children. They certainly don’t seem to care if they do, and have taken no action to limit their deaths.
There has been no greater recruiting tool for the Palestinian cause than the brutal, inhumane way the IDF have conducted this war. Thats all on them.
This isn’t true. It wasn’t true at Al Shifa, it wasn’t true at Indonesian Hospital, it wasn’t true at any of the other hospitals. The targeting of the hospitals, putting them under siege, taking them over, then the IDF destroying essential hospital infrastructure are all war crimes.
Israeli’s can stop supporting Netanyahu’s genocidal regime whenever they want. They can stop the illegal expansion of settlers. They can stop the daily raids and beatings by the IDF on the West Bank. They can release the thousands of Palestinians, many of them detained before October the 7th, from administrative detention today if they want. Israeli’s can end apartheid if it really wanted too.
This started in 1948 with the forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. It continued because settlers were stealing land, because of the apartheid regime,
The attack by Hamas were disgusting, were war crimes, and must be condemned. But they weren’t “unprovoked.”
Listen to the IDF cheer as they destroy the homes of hundreds of people.
Comply with the Geneva conventions and the laws of war.
Israel isn’t waging a war against Hamas. They are waging a war against the civilian population of Gaza.
WTF? How can Joe Palestinian do anything to stop Hamas, let alone the IDF?
The stop the war/free the hostages/end war crimes/bring down the government protesters in Israel do not seem to have much effect, either, though at least in theory there are democratic channels to make all of that happen. (Reality is never so simple, though.)
Israelis have tried to stop the settlements in the West Bank for decades. No, not every single Israeli. But quite a lot of them.
It is beyond me how anyone can fail to see that there is ample blame to go around.
I’ve debated whether to share this anecdote. I’ve only ever told one person this story because it so impacted me. And due to my paranoia about doxxing myself (I’ve mentioned that I work in an extremely small and insular field). But I speak to a group of Israeli colleagues nearly every day (we have an office there). About a year ago I was at that office and asked someone I’d become friends with about how the relationship with the Arab Israelis was. His response (swear to god, direct quote):
“They are like your niggers. They just need to know their place.”
I responded appropriately outraged, and he laughed and said “Ah, but you understand”
Every one of my colleagues will tell you they despise Netanyahu and his right wing government. But not one of them standing there seemed the least bit phased by this guy’s comment.
It’s hard to describe the impression it left, but it left me wondering if the average Israeli was maybe not quite as open to a peaceful solution as I’d assumed.
Talk is cheap.
With racist assholes, one prefers they keep it to talk, if they can’t keep their mouths shut.
They can stop supporting them. Polls show most Palestinians support Hamas. They dont have to give them aid or support. They can let the IDF know where the hostages and terrorists are.
For the long term problems? Yes. The unending cycle of terrorist rockets, bombs, whatever/ythe IDF retaliation, then retaliation for the retaliation, ad infinitum - that’s on both
The way Netanyahu treats the Palestinians? That’s on him and Israel. And so forth.
But the current ‘war’- where Hamas attacked Israel and committed unspeakable atrocities- many of which are ongoing- that’s 100% on Hamas. HAMAS ATTACKED ISRAEL That is on them.
When one of my children says mean things about the other, they are the naughty child and need correction. When the offended child hits the offender in retaliation the mean-talking child is no less naughty, but the violent child becomes my priority for correction.
Hamas attacked Israel, yes. Israel was justified in “going after Hamas”, yes. There were always going to be a fair number of innocent Gazan’s killed in the fighting.
But, if Israel is systematically bombing (or shelling, or whatever) all the hospitals without strong evidence that there is actual war stuff going on in each one, and then leaving those hospitals in the lurch afterward, then Israel is doing something wrong and quite possibly something worse even than what Hamas did 7 Oct (which was a terrible thing justifying military action).
The US doesn’t have any pull with Hamas. We can’t do anything about the atrocities they commit. But we do have pull with Israel, so it makes sense to complain about the problematic behavior they exhibit.
The attack on Gaza is justified. That doesn’t mean all tactics are justified.