# Will Jeffrey Epstein's "friends" face justice?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 4, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242 "2020-08-04T11:49:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/61 "2024-01-02T01:03:07Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> What would be an example of a legitimate reason to be an associate of Epstein?
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> people would want to talk to him about getting his financial support for some cause or project, charity donations or investment or whatever, or maybe they just want him to make an introduction to other wealthy people for the same purpose.
Exactly.
Epstein apparently made the big bucks in investment finance while keeping very close to the vest who he worked with and what his deals were. That was questioned in some cases but at the time would not have made him much different from other “finance bros”. So of course, he made legit contacts in the business/investments ecosystem. And no different from many others in that sphere, while at it he used his resources to engage in some Power Schmoozing to make connections with important people in other areas of activity.
We have to be careful with, based on hindsight, presuming that any decent sensible person coming into contact with him should have immediately detected something was terribly wrong and ran, and that thus **anyone** who was ever associated socially or professionally with Epstein either are themselves suspect or at the very least were willfully ignorant to a culpable degree.
Sure, **after 2007/8** there would have been reasons to chill things as claims both professional and personal began piling up in the background, but **before** that I can see people telling themselves _“oh just another rich a-hole playing the system, I’ve had to sit and listen to worse”._
Your usual high-tier criminals are **not** in perpetual “do crimes” mode visible to the naked eye. They walk among us doing regular business and participating in everyday activities as a perfectly normal person would, most of the day most days, and they don’t drag _everyone_ they come in touch with into the dark rooms.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/62 "2024-01-02T01:24:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> Some fatcats might have known about his side gig in teenage women. But probably not most.
I’ve heard speculation that that was actually his main gig, and that the way he was able to make so many connections was by getting folks drunk, getting them to do something compromising, and getting it on film to blackmail them with. Or, I suppose in some of the more reprehensible cases, using the whole predator thing as bait to reward those who actually wanted it even while sober.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/63 "2024-01-02T01:45:08Z")
I’m not competent to comment on that, but if so that’s a different backstory with the same practical result.
Imagine he had a reputation among fatcats as “that guy who will blackmail you after he maneuvers you into a compromising circumstance and films it”. Odds are he’d be invited to _very_ few parties, and nobody would visit his offices to conduct business deals.
For him to succeed as a serial blackmailer _required_ that each victim entering the trap was completely unaware of what had gone on before with others. So that fatcat would be as I said: unawares until the trap was sprung.
At the same time …
I can easily believe, and especially in the later years, that there _might have been_ a sort of jungle telegraph advertising like the druggies have: “If you want some sweet sweet 16yos, Epstein’s your hook-up man.” But the nature of that lends itself to traveling far and wide in the right circles, and very little in the wrong circles.
e.g. In your zip code and in mine, it’s probably pretty easy to buy cocaine, heroin, or meth. If you know who to ask, who knows who to ask, who knows who to ask. I know none of that and I bet you don’t either. I’d be screwed if somebody told me to go buy some heroin and be back in 6 hours or we’ll shoot your wife. I have no doubt other folks in my zip code could be back with the goods in 15 minutes flat. Or might already have some in a drawer in their house.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/64 "2024-01-02T01:46:02Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> What would be an example of a legitimate reason to be an associate of Epstein?
He had a really nice private plane and liked giving VIPs free rides. he also owned some spiffy apartments in NYC, and let VIps stay in them
However, wiki has much info-
_The only publicly known billionaire client of Epstein was [Leslie Wexner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Wexner), chairman and CEO of [L Brands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L_Brands) (formerly The Limited, Inc.) and [Victoria’s Secret](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria%27s_Secret).[[28]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-Vanity_Fair-28)[[57]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-57) In 1986, Epstein met Wexner through their mutual acquaintances, insurance executive Robert Meister and his wife, in [Palm Beach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Beach,_Florida). A year later, Epstein became Wexner’s financial adviser and served as his right-hand man. Within the year, Epstein had sorted out Wexner’s entangled finances.[[30]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-nymag-30)[[58]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-Alexander-2019-58) In July 1991, Wexner granted Epstein full [power of attorney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_attorney) over his affairs. The power of attorney allowed Epstein to hire people, sign checks, buy and sell properties, borrow money, and do anything else of a legally binding nature on Wexner’s behalf.[[59]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-Steel-2019-59) Epstein managed Wexner’s wealth and various projects such as the building of his yacht, the [Limitless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limitless_(luxury_yacht)).[[28]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-Vanity_Fair-28)_
_By 1995, Epstein was a director of the [Wexner Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wexner_Foundation) and Wexner Heritage Foundation. He was also the president of Wexner’s Property, which developed part of the town of [New Albany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Albany,_Ohio) outside [Columbus, Ohio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus,_Ohio), where Wexner lived. Epstein made millions in fees by managing Wexner’s financial affairs. Although never employed by L Brands, he frequently corresponded with the company executives. Epstein often attended Victoria’s Secret [fashion shows](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashion_show), and hosted the models at his [New York City home](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_N._Straus_House), as well as helping aspiring models get work with the company.[[58]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-Alexander-2019-58)[[59]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-Steel-2019-59)_
_In 1996, Epstein changed the name of his firm to the Financial Trust Company[[30]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-nymag-30) and, for [tax advantages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance), based it on the island of [St. Thomas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas,_U.S._Virgin_Islands) in the [U.S. Virgin Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Virgin_Islands).[[30]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-nymag-30) By relocating to the U.S. Virgin Islands, Epstein was able to reduce [federal income taxes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States) by 90 percent. The U.S. Virgin Islands acted as an offshore [tax haven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven), while at the same time offering the advantages of being part of the [United States banking system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_in_the_United_States).[[60]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-60)… Epstein was a longtime acquaintance of [Prince Andrew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Andrew,_Duke_of_York) and [Tom Barrack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_J._Barrack_Jr.),[[202]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-michaelwolff-202) and attended parties with many prominent people, including [Bill Clinton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton), [George Stephanopoulos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stephanopoulos), [Donald Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump),[[203]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-203) [Katie Couric](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Couric), [Woody Allen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Allen),[[204]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-204) and [Harvey Weinstein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Weinstein).[[205]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-205) His contacts included [Rupert Murdoch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch), [Michael Bloomberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg), [Richard Branson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson), [Alec Baldwin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Baldwin) and the [Kennedys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_family).[[206]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-206) His contacts also included Israeli prime minister [Ehud Barak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Barak), British prime minister [Tony Blair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair), and Saudi Arabian crown prince [Mohammed bin Salman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_bin_Salman).[[207]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-207)[[208]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-208)[[209]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-209) Both Clinton[[210]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-210) and Trump[[211]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-211) claimed that they never visited Epstein’s island._
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/65 "2024-01-02T02:27:34Z")
Oh thanks guys. I do recall a little of that background now that you mention it.
I hate to be so pessimistic, but I will be surprised if there is a single person who didn’t know what he was.
I mean, as a species, we’re very flawed, sadly.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/66 "2024-01-02T02:34:16Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> I hate to be so pessimistic, but I will be surprised if there is a single person who didn’t know what he was.
Most people didnt, until the arrests and lawsuits started flying.
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/67 "2024-01-02T18:51:16Z")
I’m willing to suspect that Epstein was always known to be a sort of “Dr. Feel good” for his rich clientele. I doubt that he had any sort of unique or special skills or knowledge with regard to investing and finance, but I can imagine that he was able to build his clientele based on the fact that he was always bringing a bevy of beautiful women to the party.
Maybe some people didn’t know that these women were underage, or maybe they naively thought that he was really that charming that all these girls were his friends, but I doubt there was an Epstein “client” who didn’t at least get to _look_ at very pretty young women when meeting with him.
And, of course, and probably depending upon their level of prestige, it wasn’t always limited to looking. Maybe it was just a massage
> **[Alan Dershowitz: Sure I Got a Massage at Jeffrey Epstein’s Mansion, but I...](https://www.theroot.com/alan-dershowitz-sure-i-got-a-massage-at-jeffrey-epstei-1836314016)**
>
> Welp, welcome to the slippery sleazy slope that comes with billionaire Jeffrey Epstein’s recent arrest for child sex trafficking.
Maybe Epstein’s boys have a different definition of massage than the rest of us.
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/68 "2024-01-02T23:39:11Z")
Rumor has it that Jimmy Kimmel is on the list. This will make me very sad if it’s true.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/69 "2024-01-02T23:44:18Z")
Lol, in an accusation made by Qaaron Rogers, whom Kimmel… just in the past hour… has threatened to sue:
>
>
> Collin Rugg @CollinRugg
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/70 "2024-01-03T00:51:53Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> Rumor has it that Jimmy Kimmel is on the list
Rumor would have at that basically everyone is on the list. Rumors mean squat.
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/71 "2024-01-03T01:05:25Z")
Oh crap,I didn’t realize it was Rogers spreading the rumor. Please pardon my mistake.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/72 "2024-01-03T01:11:49Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> Rumor has it that Jimmy Kimmel is on the list. This will make me very sad if it’s true.
Being “on the list” means nothing.
Hell, I would have accepted a free ride on his private jet. No big deal.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/73 "2024-01-03T01:36:06Z")
> [@Moriarty](#):
>
> Maybe some people didn’t know that these women were underage
Were they all? I’d have expected there to be at least some adults among them.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/74 "2024-01-03T15:01:18Z")
And there’s part of the problem — the spread of an Epstein Myth in which the public is encouraged to suspect _ **everyone** _ in the rich/powerful/famous/influential sphere took a ride in his plane to the Island where he pimped children to them, and that was _ **the** _ one thing anyone was involved in with him, no legit business ever, and hey, prove they didn’t.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/75 "2024-01-03T15:47:44Z")
Which of course plays right into the RW / QAnon panic about pedophiles throughout the (left-leaning only) elite.
In terms of moral panics, its one of the most sexy (heh) and hardest to dispel if you get wrongly tarred with the hysteria brush.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/76 "2024-01-03T16:50:08Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> Oh crap,I didn’t realize it was Rogers spreading the rumor. Please pardon my mistake.
[Kimmel had a few things to say to Rogers.](https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/jimmy-kimmel-hits-back-nfls-aaron-rodgers-reckless-comments-suggesting-rcna132051)
> For the record, I’ve not met, flown with, visited, or had any contact whatsoever with Epstein, nor will you find my name on any ‘list’ other than the clearly-phony nonsense that soft-brained wackos like yourself can’t seem to distinguish from reality.”
>
> “Your reckless words put my family in danger. Keep it up and we will debate the facts further in court,” the TV host added.
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### Author:  [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/77 "2024-01-03T17:01:37Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> And there’s part of the problem — the spread of an Epstein Myth in which the public is encouraged to suspect _ **everyone** _ in the rich/powerful/famous/influential sphere took a ride in his plane to the Island where he pimped children to them
Which is all just an effort to dilute the fact that we _know_ who was _definitely_ on Epstein’s Wild Ride multiple times.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/78 "2024-01-03T21:00:58Z")
Damn, all my favorite baseball players are on the list:
[ ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/53441037395/)
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/79 "2024-01-03T21:50:15Z")
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/business/jeffrey-epstein-john-does/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/business/jeffrey-epstein-john-does/index.html)
_Appearing in court documents is by no means a sign of wrongdoing. But given the severity of the charges against Epstein and Maxwell, their former associates have been eager to distance themselves and denounce the alleged crimes._
_Former presidents Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are known to have had connections with Epstein, a multimillionaire investor and consultant, though neither has been accused of wrongdoing related to those ties. A spokesman for Clinton [confirmed in 2019](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/08/politics/bill-clinton-jeffrey-epstein/index.html) that the former president had flown on Epstein’s private plane but said Clinton knew nothing of the financier’s “terrible crimes.” Trump has told reporters that [he banned Epstein](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/01/us/ghislaine-maxwell-trial/index.html) from his Mar-a-Lago estate but has not publicly explained why their friendship ended._
_Microsoft founder Bill Gates — who met with Epstein several times beginning in 2011, according [to the New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html) — has said in interviews that he regrets having had dinners with Epstein to discuss philanthropy efforts. Gates has not been accused of any wrongdoing._
Getting a free VIP airplane ride does not mean you had anything at all to do with Epstein’s illegal activities.
Now, if you went to his “special island”, then suspicions can be raised.
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### Author:  [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-jeffrey-epsteins-friends-face-justice/917242/80 "2024-01-03T21:56:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Former presidents Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are known to have had connections with Epstein, a multimillionaire investor and consultant, though neither has been accused of wrongdoing related to those ties. A spokesman for Clinton [confirmed in 2019](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/08/politics/bill-clinton-jeffrey-epstein/index.html) that the former president had flown on Epstein’s private plane but said Clinton knew nothing of the financier’s “terrible crimes.”
Didn’t one of the accusers say she saw Clinton on the island?
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