There still can be and should be a plea deal more or less like the previous one.
Is it an important part? Do you have evidence that paying your taxes when caught significantly reduces the chance of jail time? Maybe it does, but no one has brought any evidence so far.
I posted a simmple refutation to the claim that almost no one goes to jail for tax fraud. The cite states the simple fact that 2/3 of tax fraud convictions result in jail time.
If you think there is an explanation for why people in Hunter’s situaion almost never go to jail, provide a cite.
Yeah, I’m confused on this as well. Has he already paid the back taxes and fines or just promised to? Because if he’s already paid them, then why would he be indicted if the prosecutor wasn’t looking for prison time? And assuming no plea deal, can the judge on their own authority waive the sentencing minimums and say, “Hunter has paid back the fines so no prison time. Two years probation.”
That thread turned into a mishmash of dummy heads (myself included) trying to establish against what standard Hunter’s circumstance should be measured. Give the collection of non-experts in play, we managed to muddy it up pretty good.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t a clear, expert answer. It also doesn’t mean your cite blew up the notion that no prison time might be appropriate for the crimes in question.
There was some in that very thread. As I did in the thread, I’d encourage people to read the Slate cite DrDeth provided, authored by someone with 30 years of expert history in this space.
ETA: Czarcasm is correct—paying all the back taxes is an important (though not the only) element considered. Again, read the cite I mentioned. We non-experts made a real mess of it.
Are you talking about this one?
If so, it says that people rarely go to jail unless you can prove a willful effort to avoid paying taxes (a point I made earlier as well in this thread, with other cites).
If they’re pursuing fraud charges, then they must have evidence of a willful attempt here. In which case jail time isn’t unusual.
That article says nothing about reducing a sentence when you pay back what you owe. And I don’t see why that should be a factor; paying back money is compulsory, and generally you have penalties on top of that.
Now, reducing the sentence due to a willingness to cut a plea deal is of course normal; not only normal, it’s the reason why people do plea deals in the first place. But the plea deal efforts broke down.
We have given you cite after cite.
First of all, most tax crimes never get prosecuted and got to trial- . Either it is a Civil charge, or a pretrial deal is made.
Only 2% of federal criminal defendants went to trial in 2018 | Pew Research Center
Nearly 80,000 people were defendants in federal criminal cases in fiscal 2018, but just 2% of them went to trial. The overwhelming majority (90%) pleaded guilty instead, while the remaining 8% had their cases dismissed, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of data collected by the federal judiciary.
Most defendants who did go to trial, meanwhile, were found guilty, either by a jury or judge.
So, deals are made 90% of the time.
Yes, of those convicted of criminal tax fraud, many get prison time. that doesnt mean they actually go to prison you know, often the sentence is suspended.
Because a MAGA congress put political pressure to scotch the deal.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/21/hunter-biden-plea-deal-experts-00102996
Two former IRS lawyers said Biden’s deal is not an outlier and is similar to what ordinary taxpayers could expect if investigated for similar conduct. Two other former tax officials told POLITICO that Biden could have faced stiffer charges.
Maggie Abdo-Gomez, a Miami tax attorney and former IRS lawyer, said it’s rare for people to face criminal charges for simply failing to pay their taxes… “I’ve only seen them — one time — prosecute someone for failure to pay taxes,” she said. “Because the truth is, if we prosecuted for failure to pay taxes, the jails would be full. Forget the drug dealers and the murderers and everybody else. I have a small practice, and I’ve got tons of people that owe taxes.”..Caroline Ciraolo, acting head of the Justice Department’s Tax Division for the last year of the Obama administration, said the case’s resolution didn’t strike her as outside the norm.
I’m not an expert and don’t have cites to back this up, but I suspect there are two issues at play here.
If I make a mistake on my taxes, say I forgot to include a source of income, then the IRS will send me a note saying that I owe so much back taxes and so much in additional fines (usually calcuated by an given interest rate on the amount owed and how long ago it was supposed to be paid). There is nothing criminal here, just book keeping and making sure the government gets back its money and that this sort of behavior is discouraged.
This is what Hunter Biden has paid back. A tax cheat didn’t have to do this, he might have fought it by saying he didn’t actually owe those taxes or simply ignored the request and any further requests, and made the government have to come and get it. Biden admitted that he owed the money and made payments voluntarily. This saves the government significant effort, and there is a reason why they might want to encourage others to do it by giving them leniency on what follows below.
Now if instead of just forgetting to put the income on my form, I actually took steps to try to conceal that income, and knew what I was doing. Then that involves the possibility of tax fraud or evasion. That is a criminal act and if the perpetraitor is found guilty can involve additional fines, that go beyond the IRS just getting the money its owed plus interest, and could also include possibly jail time. This is what would be decided by the plea bargain and possible trial.
Did he pay it back because of a civil lawsuit or did he pay it back because they sent him a letter, “You owe us $X.”?
If that’s true then deals are made at a lower rate than most federal prosecutions. 98% of federal prosecutions end in plea deals. So if that 90% is a real percentage then tax cases go to trial at a higher rate than all other criminal prosecutions.
Most criminal cases end in plea bargains, new study finds : NPR.
No, that was the stats for Federal prosecutions-
Nearly 80,000 people were defendants in federal criminal cases in fiscal 2018, but just 2% of them went to trial. The overwhelming majority (90%) pleaded guilty instead, while the remaining 8% had their cases dismissed, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of data collected by the federal judiciary.
Well, that’s good enough for me.
So Hunter may go to prison for tax fraud. OK.
How much prison time should Trump get for his tax fraud?
And of course insurrection, sedition, conspiracy, election interference, rape, and on, on on and on…
Not sure how Trump enters into this discussion … unless you’re saying Biden should (not) pardon both of them.
No, just saying that if Hunter goes to prison for tax fraud, so should Trump. But the GOP Hypocrites must Hip.
Sorry mods. Damn near anything that deals with law can very, very easily flip to Trump.
Turns out the answer is yes.
Good!
I’m against this type of thing, but screw it. Hardly anything to get too mad about.
Reversing his earlier position but its good. This issue will be finally put to rest.
MAGAts: “OMG, what a travesty of the pardon power!”
points to whom Trump pardoned on his way out of office the first time, including Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, and Steve Bannon.
MAGAts: "But, his laptop!!!’
Happy for Joe Biden…there should be no mental stress in the fag end of his life wrt his only surviving son.
Joe deserves a peaceful and happy exit from public life. I wish him well and a happy life ahead.