# Will LA Noire revolutionize video games?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [December 19, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694 "2010-12-19T07:09:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/1 "2010-12-19T07:09:28Z")
Certain the [facial animation technology](http://www.gameranx.com/video_player/vidinfo/774/game/l-a-noire-motionscan-trailer-shows-amazing-facial-animation/vtype/sd/) is amazing and the best I have ever seen. And they seem to be integrating it into the gameplay so that reading faces becomes a major part of the game. Difficult to pull off but if they are even moderately successful it could lead games to a whole new level of character development and storytelling.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/2 "2010-12-19T15:12:05Z")
Depends on how good the game is.
LA Noire is, apparently, basically “Grand Theft Auto: LA Confidential,” in that it’s yet another GTA on the heels of the various GTA games and the Red Dead games, which are just GTA: Old West. So the question is how well the gaming audience will warm up to another GTA game in this particular environment.
That they’re pulling out the stops in getting realistic facial movement is interesting but it seems unlikely to be that it will revolutionize video games, in the sense of dramatically altering the direction video games are going. We’ve been moving towards greater realism in graphics for some time now; this strike me as being an evolutionary step, not a revolution.
---
### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/3 "2010-12-19T15:43:58Z")
I think the really exciting part is the integration of the facial technology with the gameplay. From that clip it appears that players have to make decisions about who to trust based on facial expressions. I don’t know if that has ever been done before and if it works it could revolutionize story-based games.
---
### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/4 "2010-12-19T15:54:10Z")
> [@Lantern](#):
>
> I think the really exciting part is the integration of the facial technology with the gameplay. From that clip it appears that players have to make decisions about who to trust based on facial expressions. I don’t know if that has ever been done before and if it works it could revolutionize story-based games.
Agreed. I have no problem enjoying the aesthetics of older games that don’t use this technology, but you can really see the emotions of the characters.
---
### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/5 "2010-12-19T16:10:25Z")
Well, it’s certyainly nice, Lantern… but that’s not revolutionary. That’s a gimmick. It mjgiht be a good gimmick, mind, but still a gimmick. It’s somewhat appropriate for some genres some of the time, but it’s hardly going to change gaming forever.
---
### Author:  [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/6 "2010-12-19T16:12:52Z")
I suspect this technology is going to die rather quickly, as the potential for abuse is just way too high. Nobody wants to play a game that involves little more than watching characters talk, that’s why it never caught on despite FMV technology being more than up to the task and why everyone hated Final Fantasy 13 unless they were a brain-damaged JRPG fan. Certainly having excellent acting and facial animations is going to make a good game that much better. However, it’s one thing for Rockstar to do it with their ability to throw fantastic sums of money at a game’s development and quite another for a smaller studio to spend time and money on this technology instead of artists or beta testing. If it does catch on, it’ll be a short time before too much development cash is spent chasing down big name actors, which is going to worsen all of the problems that out-of-control development costs are already costing.
---
### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/7 "2010-12-19T16:26:33Z")
> [@Palooka](#):
>
> Nobody wants to play a game that involves little more than watching characters talk, that’s why it never caught on despite FMV technology being more than up to the task and why everyone hated Final Fantasy 13 unless they were a brain-damaged JRPG fan.
FMV _isn’t_ up to the task, precisely _because_ it limits you to little more than watching characters talk. Facial animations generated as a 3d object rather than a video allows for things like Half Life 2, where you are free to look around the room or just walk off and leave the NPC to follow you if you don’t want to sit and watch the facial animations.
---
### Author:  [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/8 "2010-12-19T16:51:38Z")
You should probably review how this technology works and its implementation in LA Noire. It’s going to have the same limitations.
---
### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/9 "2010-12-19T16:56:41Z")
You are not watching the characters talk; you are interacting with them. Here is the IGN [preview](http://ps3.ign.com/articles/113/1135448p2.html):
> [@](#):
>
> When you ask questions, you’ll need to pay attention not only to what people say, but their eyes, mouth, and body language. After responses, you have three options. You can believe them, doubt them, or outright accuse them of lying. The interface for this is remarkably ugly (a list of the same three options in the top left corner of the screen), but the results are pretty interesting. If you can tell someone is holding back, doubting them means pressing for more info. If correct, this leads to new info, and could give you a new suspect or clarify something about your investigation. Choosing incorrectly could close off a person’s willingness to cooperate or, at the very least, cost you a piece of evidence.
So the better you are at reading people the faster you will progress through the game. This is a whole new dimension of gameplay which I don’t think has ever been seen before and is certainly not possible with FMV.
---
### Author:  [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/10 "2010-12-19T17:14:30Z")
What part of that isn’t possible with FMV? It’s not like the content is being generated procedurally. Everything is pre-recorded and pre-captured, just like FMV. It’s basically a 16 year update of In the 1st Degree.
---
### Author:  [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/11 "2010-12-19T17:31:23Z")
Yes, kind of, no.
Yes, in that it offers the ability for a real crime/mystery game to be possible.
Kind of, because most games do just fine with regular, or no, cutscenes, so while it adds immersion, its not really revolutionary, nor even useful in all environments, since you need to be focused on the face of the speaker to make it worthwhile. Not common in fps games, or outside of cutscenes tbh.
And no, because not all that many companies will be able to afford such a huge bump in studio time.
---
### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/12 "2010-12-19T17:48:01Z")
I think the difference is a great deal more interactivity while asking questions. For example you can point to particular piece of evidence that you have already collected if you choose to disbelieve a suspect. It is also possible to interact with objects in the room while you are questioning a person; perhaps giving you vital information to pursue a line of questioning. And from a purely visual standpoint interacting with characters in the same game world that your character moves in is a lot more satisfying than watching a bunch of videos.
I should note that the game isn’t only going to be about questioning and puzzles. The usual GTA-style action elements will also be there.
---
### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/13 "2010-12-19T18:17:53Z")
> [@Palooka](#):
>
> You should probably review how this technology works and its implementation in LA Noire. It’s going to have the same limitations.
No, it’s not. FMV can only display an animation from a pre-defined viewpoint, just like a movie only allows you to watch from the point of view of the camera. The viewer cannot decide on the fly that they want the camera to go _there_ and look _there_, because the information simply doesn’t exist. This weakness does not exist for 3d graphics because while the animations are pre-recorded, they can be generated for viewing from any angle.
---
### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/14 "2010-12-19T18:27:51Z")
> [@Grumman](#):
>
> No, it’s not. FMV can only display an animation from a pre-defined viewpoint, just like a movie only allows you to watch from the point of view of the camera. The viewer cannot decide on the fly that they want the camera to go _there_ and look _there_, because the information simply doesn’t exist. This weakness does not exist for 3d graphics because while the animations are pre-recorded, they can be generated for viewing from any angle.
Which is utterly irrelevant for the basic nature of the technology. It’s all still pre-generated by art designers, only they’re working with 3d facial models instead of 2d art. For the viewer, the ability to move the screen slightly doesn’t ultimately make that much of a difference to the fact that all you’re doing is going, “that guy looks guilty” and “that guy looks honest.”
---
### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/15 "2010-12-19T19:15:14Z")
It does make a difference because you can explore the room for information which you can then use in the interrogation. Game Informer did a[cover story](http://www.gameinformer.com/games/la_noire/b/xbox360/archive/2010/11/11/l-a-noire-preview.aspx?PostPageIndex=3) on the LA Noire which describes this:
> [@](#):
>
> Giving Mrs. White some time to calm down, Phelps begins to look around the house. Noting that the couple apparently sleeps in separate bedrooms, he inspects Eugene White’s room. Near a table is a ticket to Seattle and signs of a missing suitcase. On another is a picture of Mr. White. Picking it up, Phelps pulls the picture out of its frame and inspects the back. Written on the back are the words “To My Eugene. Love, Nicole.” Clearly there’s more to this story.
And then a bit later:
> [@](#):
>
> So far, Mrs. White’s body language and expressions indicate she’s being truthful. However, things quickly become tense when Phelps asks about the picture in the bedroom. Suddenly, her expression hardens and her eyes dart around the room. She blurts out, “What is there to tell? It’s from his recent business trip to Seattle.” Phelps changes tacks, selecting the “Accuse” option. “There’s more to tell and you know it!” exclaims Phelps. Mrs. White continues her denials, saying she knows nothing, but her face tells a different story. Consulting his notepad, Phelps selects the piece of evidence that should refute her story – the inscription from “Nicole” on the back of the photo.
So the dialogue may be pre-generated but the characters inhabit a fully interactive world.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/16 "2010-12-19T20:56:07Z")
Again, video games have been getting increasingly interactive for a long time. LA Noire uses more advanced technology than previous examples to generate facial expressions. That’s neat but it’s not revolutionary; the gameplay, as your’re describing it, is nothing new. The new part is merely the generation of facial expressions through motion capture.
I think we need to play the game before deciding if it’s the next revolution in video games. **Revolutionary** is a really strong term. You could even argue that we won’t have an answer to that for several years after the game’s release.
---
### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/17 "2010-12-20T05:36:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> That’s neat but it’s not revolutionary; the gameplay, as your’re describing it, is nothing new. The new part is merely the generation of facial expressions through motion capture.
I would say the gameplay is pretty new. Which earlier game could have the kind of interaction described in the quotes in my previous post? I haven’t played the old FMV games but my understanding is the character interaction was basically watching a bunch of videos and choosing what question to ask. You are not really interacting with the character’s world like in LA Noire.
---
### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/18 "2010-12-20T05:41:54Z")
This game looks great! Seems like it was probably influenced by _Heavy Rain,_ too, which is good to see.
---
### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/19 "2010-12-20T06:05:51Z")
Anyway regardless of how revolutionary the gameplay is, LA Noire will probably set new standards in terms of the immersiveness and realism of the setting. From the Game Informer preview:
> [@](#):
>
> From the UCLA and USC archives the team secured over 180,000 photographs from period newspapers like the Los Angeles Times, The Herald Examiner, and The Daily News. Placing these pictures side by side, they were able to get a view into a forgotten world. This exhaustive photographic data provided insight into everything from long torn-down L.A. landmarks to everyday details like how people dressed and how much food cost at local diners. For items they couldn’t track down, they consulted famous Hollywood prop and wardrobe houses like Western Costume to secure authentic period clothing (some of the clothes in the game were used in films like Saving Private Ryan and King Kong) and set pieces.
> [@](#):
>
> McNamara uncovers the dark side of the Golden State in that game’s criminal cases, which occupy much of your time in the game. To make sure that L.A. Noire feels as real as possible, he conducted countless hours of research, reading crime reports from local newspapers. Over 90 percent of the game’s cases are based on real incidents, with some alterations to make sure the action is engrossing and to ensure that participants in the events or their living relatives are not brought to light.
---
### Author:  [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694/20 "2010-12-20T12:09:28Z")
I doubt it will revolutionize video games, but hopefully it leads to a revamp of the adventure game genre. _Discworld Noir_ was brilliant, and having facial expressions rather than the main character thinking, “I could tell he was lying, but I needed to catch him out somehow.”
There are the Phoenix Wright games on the DS which scratch that itch, but the immersive world of _LA Noire_ looks like it could be worth a look.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-la-noire-revolutionize-video-games/564694.md?page=2)