# Will Libya end up being a positive for Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665 "2011-08-22T15:49:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/41 "2011-08-25T03:08:30Z")
I would have to say no to the question in the OP. How many Americans really care about Libya? How many liberals think it was a good idea? How many Democrats? How many Independents? I can’t see many Republicans thinking it was a great idea or giving him positive marks for it. Personally, I think it was a positive for Obama as I think it was a different approach than the US had taken in the past, and in the end it was effective, regardless of how things pan out in Libya wrt what sort of government they eventually get. But I doubt most Americans are going to look at it that way, or really care all that much one way or the other…the primary focus is going to be on the economy and jobs. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/42 "2011-08-25T04:48:42Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I would have to say no to the question in the OP. How many Americans really care about Libya? How many liberals think it was a good idea? How many Democrats? How many Independents? I can’t see many Republicans thinking it was a great idea or giving him positive marks for it. On the contrary neoconservatives like John McCain were some of the most vocal supporters of Libya. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/43 "2011-08-25T05:20:13Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I can’t see many Republicans thinking it was a great idea or giving him positive marks for it. If Obama would just announce he approves of oxygen he could probably kill off most of the Republican party by suffocation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/44 "2011-08-25T05:27:31Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I would have to say no to the question in the OP. How many Americans really care about Libya? How many liberals think it was a good idea? How many Democrats? How many Independents? I can’t see many Republicans thinking it was a great idea or giving him positive marks for it. > > Personally, I think it was a positive for Obama as I think it was a different approach than the US had taken in the past, and in the end it was effective, regardless of how things pan out in Libya wrt what sort of government they eventually get. But I doubt most Americans are going to look at it that way, or really care all that much one way or the other…the primary focus is going to be on the economy and jobs. I think the fact that Gaddafi is the guy losing power puts this one on the map. He’s not an anonymous dictator like some are. Obviously there’s a lot of subtleties to the issue. Most of the opposition to Obama’s intervention was over genuine constitutional issue unrelated to Libya itself. (And for what it’s worth, I feel the people who opposed Obama had some legitimate points.) But here’s the surface impression, which is all that a lot of people are going to take away from this: There were wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that have dragged on with no clear resolution. Obama started another war in Libya. The Republicans opposed him. He fought the war anyway and won a quick victory and overthrew a dictator that’s been an enemy of America for decades. Like I said, this narrative lacks a lot of substance but it plays well. With this and the bin Laden killing, whoever runs as the Republican nominee is going to find himself or herself having to play catch-up on national security - and that takes away one of the Republican strong points. When’s the last time a Republican presidential candidate had to make the argument that he’s as good as the Democratic candidate on national security? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/45 "2011-08-25T13:42:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Like I said, this narrative lacks a lot of substance but it plays well. With this and the bin Laden killing, whoever runs as the Republican nominee is going to find himself or herself having to play catch-up on national security - and that takes away one of the Republican strong points. When’s the last time a Republican presidential candidate had to make the argument that he’s as good as the Democratic candidate on national security? I don’t think the current crop of Republican candidates will even try. Not one of them has any bona fides in this area, except for perhaps Huntsman, who doesn’t have a shot. What you will hear is Obama being castigated for anything and everything he’s done relating to national security and foreign policy, and dismissing his role as insignificant for any clear successes. What we have now is the cartoon version of the Republican party come to life, opposing anything Obama proposes or promotes, even if it is something they themselves are for. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/46 "2011-08-25T16:42:08Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > On the contrary neoconservatives like John McCain were some of the most vocal supporters of Libya. Did anybody not fucking read this? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/47 "2011-08-25T17:45:39Z")
Is profanity necessary? Yes, I read it. But I’m pretty sure John McCain won’t be running for President in 2012 and his opinions are not considered reflective of the mainstream of the Republican party. He’s the “maverick”. Candidates run on two things: their own personal records as individuals and the halo effect they get from their party. In general, part of the Republican halo effect is that all Republican candidates are considered to have strong national security credentials until proven otherwise. Democratic candidates have the opposite halo (which is why Hillary Clinton was able to make her “ringing telephone” ad against Obama in 2008). ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/48 "2011-08-25T23:08:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is profanity necessary? Sorry. > [@](#): > > Yes, I read it. But I’m pretty sure John McCain won’t be running for President in 2012 and his opinions are not considered reflective of the mainstream of the Republican party. He’s the “maverick”. I was just giving an example because he was the most vocal supporter of the Libyan intervention. But even Tea Partiers like say Marco Rubio have supported the NATO action in Libya. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/49 "2011-08-26T00:00:40Z")
[http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/24/leaked-cable-sen-mccain-promised-to-help-gaddafi-obtain-u-s-military-hardware/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/24/leaked-cable-sen-mccain-promised-to-help-gaddafi-obtain-u-s-military-hardware/) I suspect this might be what QIN is referring to. McCain was offering weapons to Ka-daffy in 2009. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/50 "2011-08-26T00:23:07Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > On the contrary neoconservatives like John McCain were some of the most vocal supporters of Libya. Some Republicans, like JM, were supportive, but they still criticized him for not doing enough and/or not keep the US in a leadership role. And John McCain is not a neoconservative. He’s just your garden variety, hawkish conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/51 "2011-08-26T00:23:44Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/24/leaked-cable-sen-mccain-promised-to-help-gaddafi-obtain-u-s-military-hardware/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/24/leaked-cable-sen-mccain-promised-to-help-gaddafi-obtain-u-s-military-hardware/) > I suspect this might be what QIN is referring to. McCain was offering weapons to Ka-daffy in 2009. So? We also aided Stalin who was far eviller and bloodier than Qadaffi. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/52 "2011-08-26T00:24:20Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > On the contrary neoconservatives like John McCain were some of the most vocal supporters of Libya. [He and Graham have been pretty grudging about it lately, though.](http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/McCain-Graham-Libya-Obama/2011/08/22/id/408149) > [@](#): > > “Americans can be proud of the role our country has played in helping to defeat Gadhafi,” the senators said in a statement released late Sunday night. “But we regret that this success was so long in coming due to the failure of the United States to employ the full weight of our airpower.” > > But the GOP senators also criticized Obama’s handling of the uprising. For one thing, Obama had limited U.S. military involvement to carrying out the early rounds of airstrikes before pulling back to a support role and refused to send in U.S. ground troops. And you know what they would have said if he \*had \*done that. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/53 "2011-08-26T02:08:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So? We also aided Stalin who was far eviller and bloodier than Qadaffi. Well that is surely proof of something. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/54 "2011-08-26T02:10:00Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Well that is surely proof of something. That is sometimes we end up supporting nasty people. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/55 "2011-08-26T03:18:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That is sometimes we end up supporting nasty people. And often that turns out to be a really bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/56 "2011-08-26T19:00:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [He and Graham have been pretty grudging about it lately, though.](http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/McCain-Graham-Libya-Obama/2011/08/22/id/408149) > And you know what they would have said if he \*had \*done that. Boy I bet using the full force of America’s airpower would have been a lot easier if Congress had done something helpful like passing a resolution suporting the striles and authorising US invovlement. Too bad McCain was not in position to introduce something like that! wait… ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/57 "2011-08-27T17:08:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And often that turns out to be a really bad idea. Well back in '09 it looked as if Qadaffi was being reasonable (for a dictator) and cooperating with the US, and he wasn’t murdering thousands of his citizens either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/58 "2011-08-27T19:48:29Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well back in '09 it looked as if Qadaffi was being reasonable (for a dictator) and cooperating with the US, and he wasn’t murdering thousands of his citizens either. And it was good for the U.S. to make friends with him then. But that’s no reason to stick by him when his people make it clear they want him gone. I’d be glad if we made friends with Castro; but if a real, broadly popular anti-Castro revolt broke out in Cuba, we probably should support that, depending on circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/59 "2011-08-27T20:44:42Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well back in '09 it looked as if Qadaffi was being reasonable (for a dictator) and cooperating with the US, and he wasn’t murdering thousands of his citizens either. Superficially .it might look that way. i am sure we had information to the contrary, but if a dictator does not cause trouble for our allies or corporations, we will pretend all is well. It is good business. Bad ethics and morality, but good business. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665/60 "2011-08-28T01:09:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Superficially .it might look that way. i am sure we had information to the contrary, but if a dictator does not cause trouble for our allies or corporations, we will pretend all is well. It is good business. Bad ethics and morality, but good business. We don’t need to **support** a dictator. But it’s a good idea, if the costs moral and political are not too high, to try to be friendly with all **countries** regardless of their regimes. And good relations with the outside world might open up and liberalize a dictatorship. Eventually. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-libya-end-up-being-a-positive-for-obama/593665.md?page=4)