# Will Mahmoud Abbas end Palestinian terrorism and produce a Palestinian state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131 "2003-04-30T12:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/61 "2003-05-03T21:29:59Z")
(Re: skip) ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/62 "2003-05-04T11:02:54Z")
OliverH: Whatever form the control is, Arafat either doesn’t have it, or if he does will never admit to having it. However even when the PA did have the power and infrastructure to crack down on militants they hardly did. When Israel pulled out of the West Bank in May 1994 with the hope that the PA would control the violence and work towards a solution they did not. From [this](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLO_and_Hamas) page which details the relationship between the PLO/PA and Hamas during 1994-1996 (when the PA was in control of the West Bank/Gaza): > [@](#): > > Yassir Arafat stated ‘There is no confrontation with Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.’ (United Press International, September 12, 1996) > > PA Justice Minister Freih Abu Medein stated: ‘The PA and the [Hamas] opposition complement each other… .We regard Hamas and Islamic Jihad as national elements… .The main enemy, now and forever, is Israel.’ (An Nahar, April 11, 1995; Al Quds, April 14, 1995) > … > Abbas Zakai of the Fatah Central Committee said: ‘[Hamas’s attacks] strengthen the Palestinian position… It would be dangerous to stop these actions, because the accords will crumble if there is nothing to make Israel go forward.’ (Al Hayat, April 17, 1995) > … > Ninety Hamas members were hired to man the PA police force’s ‘vice department’, the public name for the PLO death squads that murdered over 1,000 Palestinian Arabs during the intifada years on suspicion of committing ‘acts of immorality’. (Jerusalem Times, November 25, 1994.) And from [this](http://www.nclci.org/Issues/backgrounder_blaming.htm) page (the source might have bias but I can’t find anything factually amiss here): > [@](#): > > According to each of the three signed agreements, the PA is obligated to cancel the Palestinian National Covenant and cooperate in the fight against terrorism by stopping the incitements against Israel coming from within the PA administered territory. There are other commitments, but they all relate back to these basic two points. > > Regarding the covenant, there was some initial activity to revise it in April 1996 when the Palestine National Council voted to establish a committee to decide which articles needed to be revised. That is as far as they got, the committee was never appointed. Today the covenant remains on the record, as antisemitic and anti-Israel as ever. > > Nothing has happened regarding incitement against Israel either. Since May 1994, when Israel left Gaza and Jericho, 67 Palestinians accused of cooperating with Israel have been murdered, 96 others have been seriously injured. Threats of violence continue, apparently unchecked by anyone in authority. Some sample statements from last month indicate the problem. ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/63 "2003-05-04T18:57:59Z")
**Skip:** Your first link (the Wikipedia) is a “wiki”, which means that anyone can edit the information on display. Hardly a suitable source on issues that are under heavy debate. Your second link is as you noted quite biased. In fact it is an excerpt of a column / editorial from “The National Christian Leadership Conference for Israel”. They describe themselves as “a network of Christian organisations and individuals in support of the state of Israel”. For me that translates into “pro-Israel christian right”. No sources are given to the claims above; and checking out the circumstances would be a dire task. In conclusion: that is not where i’d get my info and neither should you. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/64 "2003-05-04T20:03:15Z")
_Your first link (the Wikipedia) is a “wiki”, which means that anyone can edit the information on display. Hardly a suitable source on issues that are under heavy debate._ Correct. But the quotes I posted are all sourced from Arab language newspapers (An Nahar, Al Quds, Al Hayat) or press agencies with (UPI) with full date references and citations, WikiPedia is not the source of the information. And remember if “_anyone can edit the information on display_” then it cuts both ways and anyone can correct the items if in fact they are incorrect (which is the point of Wiki’s). [This page](http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=PLO_and_Hamas&action=history) lists all the revisions to the page in question. As for the second link I agree they have bias, but as I mentioned nothing they said was factually amiss. The failure of the PA to do away with the offending articles in the convenant (something they were supposed to do in 1996 but only managed to do in 1998, under extreme US pressure, of course at the session where the vote took place Yasser Arafat told Clinton: _“We affirm to you that our people support a just peace and will not return to a pre-peace era and we will not be easy with anyone who harms the security of either side.”_, which is pretty much exactly the opposite of what happened) is a fact and well known, as is the killing of people suspected of cooperating with Israelis (as documented by [Human Rights Watch](http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/pa/isrpa1101-04.htm#P504_81339)) . If you feel the facts are inccorrect (and I have yet to see anything to counter them), then please provide reasons. Discredit the facts, not the sources (which is a mistake many people make). As they say in football ‘play the ball, not the man’. ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/65 "2003-05-04T21:25:45Z")
**Skip:** > [@](#): > > And remember if “anyone can edit the information on display” then it cuts both ways and anyone can correct the items if in fact they are incorrect (which is the point of Wiki’s). Yep that is the way wiki’s _are supposed_ to work. And sometimes they do; sometimes they don’t. I maintain that it is hardly a source with the same credibility as the NY times f. e. So let’s have a look at those quotes, then, shall we? > [@](#): > > Yassir Arafat stated ‘There is no confrontation with Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.’ (United Press International, September 12, 1996) No confrontation… Very much open to interpretation wouldnt you say? So here context is everything, and the context is **not** supplied. > [@](#): > > PA Justice Minister Freih Abu Medein stated: ‘The PA and the [Hamas] opposition complement each other… .We regard Hamas and Islamic Jihad as national elements… .The main enemy, now and forever, is Israel.’ (An Nahar, April 11, 1995; Al Quds, April 14, 1995) First we better focus some attention on that these are quotes from three different parts of an original text, bundled together here. We have no clue about how much text have separated them originally. _“The PA and the [Hamas] opposition…”_ The “Hamas” part is in brackets and therefore a insertion made by the person making the cite. The full text would show if this was a correct addition or not; but the full text is not available. _“We regard Hamas and Islamic Jihad as national elements…”_ The periods at the end indicate that this may not be the full sentence, and it seems a very cryptic statement in it’s present form. The original text is yet again not available for comparison. _“The enemy, now and forever, is Israel”_. Probably no uncommon opinion with some palestinians. Again: context. Those three sentences together would seem to imply that a coherent argument like: “PA & Hamas and Jihad are all friends in the fight against Israel” was made by the interviewee. It might be so. But it might also not be so at all. > [@](#): > > Abbas Zakai of the Fatah Central Committee said: ‘[Hamas’s attacks] strengthen the Palestinian position… It would be dangerous to stop these actions, because the accords will crumble if there is nothing to make Israel go forward.’ (Al Hayat, April 17, 1995) Again: the most important part, the one stating that the quote really is about “Hamas’s attacks” is in brackets. So it is inserted by the quoter; an interpretation on his part. Once again we have two excerpts from different parts of the text, and no way to control if they really refer to the same issues, which is implied. > [@](#): > > Ninety Hamas members were hired to man the PA police force’s ‘vice department’, the public name for the PLO death squads that murdered over 1,000 Palestinian Arabs during the intifada years on suspicion of committing ‘acts of immorality’. (Jerusalem Times, November 25, 1994.) Now this is something quite different than the above. It is an excerpt from a news article in an Israeli newspaper. In an Israeli newspaper you are likely to find statements from the Israeli government and the Israeli military. The newspapers source is not available. The information supplied is dubious. The fact that the paper talks about “PLO death squads” heavily hints bias. The other cite: That’s o.k. but in that case you as the person making the cite should make sure to point out what pertinent and credible factual information you think the cite supplies. The problem with this cite is that it touches on a subject which is constantly debated by Israel and PLO: Who broke the latest agreement first? Two things are of paramount importance for a balanced view: an honest account of all violations to that agreement. And placing those violations on a timeline. ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/66 "2003-05-04T21:43:40Z")
I would also recommend this educational excercise for you, **Skip** : 1. Take a sequence of a few words from any of those three first quotes you supplied. 2. Do a search on Google with that sequence inside quotation marks. 3. Check out the links from the search results. Are they credible? Are they biased? Following this procedure for any of those three cites will produce **only** heavily biased pro-Israel cites **and the Wikipedia**. Try it! ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/67 "2003-05-04T21:45:45Z")
errata: “heavily biased pro-Israel _sites_” ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/68 "2003-05-05T10:55:09Z")
_Yep that is the way wiki’s are supposed to work. And sometimes they do; sometimes they don’t. I maintain that it is hardly a source with the same credibility as the NY times f. e._ Well, WikiPedia is one of the bigger and well known Wiki’s with a large number of users from all sides of the political spectrum. Have a look at their pages on [Palestine](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine), the [Israeli-Palestinian Conflict](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Palestinian_conflict) and [Israel](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) (and they even have a page on [Israeli Terrorism](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_terrorism)) and see whether they’re biased as they seem to cover all sides. Also you won’t find any comments like the ones posted due to the fact that the majority of the quotes are from Arab language dailies. By the time they get translated and make their way to western journalists it’s all old news. Arafat has long taken advantage of this for instance by being extremely amenable and understanding when speaking to western media, but reverting to rhetoric and diatribe when speaking with Arabic media (_" While he writes in English of his vision of peace, Arafat sends a very different message in Arabic to his own people. He calls on them to become shaheeds (martyrs) in the struggle to liberate Jerusalem, and preaches the virtues of martyrdom to Palestinian children though his state-controlled media."_ - Nathan Sharansky, Wall Street Times, Feb 8 2002, _“Arafat must finally understand that he cannot maintain good relations with the United States if he continues to wink and nod at terrorists while negotiating with Israel.”_ - Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), from a letter to President Clinton on March 26, 1997, and yes no doubt you’ll label the sources biased but it’s merely to demonstrate what Arafat does). As an example Arafat stressed a need for peace when the Passover bombings occured in Netanya, yet in an interview with Al-Jazeera he claimed to pray for _“martyrdom like this”_ for himself (Washington Post 30/03/2002). As further reading, this [article](http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=89) documents the PLO and Hamas relationship in the 1994-1996 period and has lots of references to the New York Times and other more reputable sources (and yes I’m sure the source is biased as well, but facts are facts). As for your interpretations of the comments, fine that’s your interpretation, but to me it’s pretty clear and the debate can’t move further than that, although I can reply to certain points: _Probably no uncommon opinion with some palestinians_ - Sure, but this comment came from the Justice Minister of the PA at a time when the PA was supposed to be cracking down on Hamas/Hezbollah, with the cooperation of Israel, not labelling them _“now and forever”_ the enemy. As for the PA hiring Hamas militants this is well documented. I agree the “death squads” approach is a bit hard line but the PA has put a number of terrorists on it’s payroll which has concerned the Israeli government in the past. > [@](#): > > On the orders of Yasser Arafat, Palestinians arrested for attacking Israelis are tried almost instantly by special State Security Courts, and convicted and sentenced before Israel can begin extradition proceedings. The courts often mete out sentences that seem severe – but defendants rarely serve more than a few months behind bars before they are reunited with their families, and allowed to move freely in PA-controlled territory. If they renounce membership in Hamas or one of the other radical organizations, and pledge their allegiance to Arafat’s mainstream Fatah organization, they often find employment with one of the 10 official PA security agencies operating in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. > > The Palestinian Authority refuses to provide statistics on terror-linked convicts released before the end of their terms. But Palestinian sources say that between their foundation in April 1995 and the end of 1997, the courts tried and sentenced 46 Palestinians for direct and indirect involve ment in anti-Israel terror. Sentences ranged from six months in jail to life; many of those jailed, particularly those sentenced to two years or less, were freed in months. > … > The ranks of the various Palestinian security forces also include a large number of Palestinians guilty of crimes against other Palestinians, particularly those who collaborated with Israel during the Intifada. Israel released them as part of the 1993 Oslo Accords – on condition they be confined to Jericho. But many of them have been given weapons, military or police ranks, and security posts in the West Bank and Gaza. > > Take the case of Nasser Abu Hmeid, of the Al-Amari refugee camp near Ramallah, sentenced by Israel in 1993 to nine life terms for his role in the decapitation killings of collaborators. Shortly after his post-Oslo transfer to Jericho, Abu Hmeid – who headed a group called the Masked Lion – joined the Palestinian Preventive Security apparatus as an interrogator. In 1994, a few weeks before control of West Bank cities was handed over to the PA, Abu Hmeid was caught by an undercover Israeli patrol in Ramallah. He is now back in an Israeli prison – because he violated the terms of his release by leaving Jericho. - Press release from the Office of the Prime Minister, March 5, 1998 (taken from [this site](http://www.likud.nl/govern25.html), I’m sure another biased site) ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/69 "2003-05-05T14:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skip \* > \*\*OliverH: Whatever form the control is, Arafat either doesn’t have it, or if he does will never admit to having it. However even when the PA did have the power and infrastructure to crack down on militants they hardly did. When Israel pulled out of the West Bank in May 1994 with the hope that the PA would control the violence and work towards a solution they did not. From [this](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLO_and_Hamas) page which details the relationship between the PLO/PA and Hamas during 1994-1996 (when the PA was in control of the West Bank/Gaza): > And from [this](http://www.nclci.org/Issues/backgrounder_blaming.htm) page (the source might have bias but I can’t find anything factually amiss here): \*\* Well, there’s “nothing factually amiss” and there’s the full truth. The two are quite distinct. Israel complied with just as many of their obligations under the Oslo agreement as the Palestinians, which is to say none. They dragged out their withdrawal, kept prisoners locked up they were supposed to release, and continued to terrorise the civilian population. Check out some of the testimonies by refuseniks on [www.seruv.org](http://www.seruv.org): [http://www.seruv.org/defaulteng.asp](http://www.seruv.org/defaulteng.asp) ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/70 "2003-05-05T15:00:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skip \* > \*\* > > Also you won’t find any comments like the ones posted due to the fact that the majority of the quotes are from Arab language dailies. By the time they get translated and make their way to western journalists it’s all old news. > \*\* Problem with this argument is that there’s several online Arab news outlets which publish in English > [@](#): > > \*\* > and yes no doubt you’ll label the sources biased but it’s merely to demonstrate what Arafat does). As an example Arafat stressed a need for peace when the Passover bombings occured in Netanya, yet in an interview with Al-Jazeera he claimed to pray for _“martyrdom like this”_ for himself (Washington Post 30/03/2002). \*\* Unfortunately, your sources don’t demonstrate ‘What Arafat does’ at all, they merely raise claims. And given that you remain silent about the suggestions of massive ethnic cleansings in the territories raised by the likes of Netanyahu, you achieve little but supporting the view that you are merely searching for evidence supporting your opinion rather than actually researching the issue. > [@](#): > > \*\* > As for the PA hiring Hamas militants this is well documented. I agree the “death squads” approach is a bit hard line but the PA has put a number of terrorists on it’s payroll which has concerned the Israeli government in the past. \*\* Indeed. It has concerned them much more than massive violations of the Geneva Conventions by their side, which they simply tried to explain away by declaring the Geneva Conventions ‘inapplicable’ -something the Geneva Convention strictly prevents a single government from doing. As long as the IDF engages in random killings and destruction as well as extrajudicial executions, talking about Palestinian death squads is quite hypocritical from them. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > - Press release from the Office of the Prime Minister, March 5, 1998 (taken from [this site](http://www.likud.nl/govern25.html), I’m sure another biased site) \*\* The release ignores a couple of provisions of the Oslo treaty, but that is not at all unusual. And given that the Israelis have a track record for not releasing anyone they don’t like, regardless of sentence, they should be a bit timid about talking about release dates. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/71 "2003-05-05T15:07:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mojo \* > \*\*I don’t know- al-qasr is “castle”, but you got me if that has any relation to Umm Qasr. Abu Dhabi supposedly means “father of the dhabi” (dhabian are a type of arabian gazelle found in the region). I only know a few phrases and words, so this is prob. a Tamerlane/Collunsbury/Istara question. > > I’ve heard that “Abu Mazen” is his _nom du guerre_, sort of like Abu Nidal (“father of the struggle”). \*\* Qasr is Castle, the Umm is As for Mazen is a male name. I don’t know it has any particular meaning, as written it doesn’t match any roots that tell me it has a war meaning. ---
**Author:** ![anewthought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@anewthought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anewthought)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/72 "2003-05-05T15:08:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > So, will Mahmoud Abbas succeed in ending Palestinian terrorism, and lead to a real peace in the region, as well as a Palestinain state? Or, will there be no change, as terrorist organizations continue to call the tune? \*\* Your arguement is flawed in that Mahmoud Abbas doesn’t have the power to end the terrorism. It is also flawed in the fact that the terrorism isn’t necessarily ‘Palestinian terrorism’. There are many global terrorist networks based on other countries that are behind a good number of terrorist attacks against Israel. How can Mahmoud Abbas have any control over this? Again - your arguement is further flawed because there are so many causes of terrorism out of the hands of the one man. Including Israel and it’s bulldozing of homes. What you should have asked perhaps instead was will Mahmoud Abbas and Sharon succeed in ending palestinian terrorism. And will other nations help in reducing other forms of terrorism towards Israel leading to a real peace in the region? I can tell you one thing for sure - just because there is a ‘Palestinian State’ in the works terrorism won’t suddenly stop. Organizations like Al Qaeda completely depend on the Israel issue to inflame people enough to join their organization. It’s in their interest to keep attacking Israel, so Israel will strike back, piss off more people, and lead to more recruits. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131/73 "2003-05-05T17:20:29Z")
_Problem with this argument is that there’s several online Arab news outlets which publish in English_ Oh sure now there are, but I bet the number was a helluva lot less in 1996. And even then the rhetoric seems to be reserved for the print editions. _Unfortunately, your sources don’t demonstrate ‘What Arafat does’ at all, they merely raise claims._ It’s clear to me they’re referring to him placating the US/Israel via the western media but at the same time continuing the standard anti-Israel diatribe via the Palestinian state controlled media and other Arabic speaking media. _And given that you remain silent about the suggestions of massive ethnic cleansings in the territories raised by the likes of Netanyahu, you achieve little but supporting the view that you are merely searching for evidence supporting your opinion rather than actually researching the issue._ Let’s not change the subject. We’re discussing Arafat and his current/past role in the PA. I am no fan of Netanyahu and don’t see how he comes into this discussion. - Indeed. It has concerned them much more than massive violations of the Geneva Conventions by their side, which they simply tried to explain away by declaring the Geneva Conventions ‘inapplicable’ -something the Geneva Convention strictly prevents a single government from doing.\* Again this is off topic. Perhaps you want to open another thread on it? _As long as the IDF engages in random killings and destruction as well as extrajudicial executions, talking about Palestinian death squads is quite hypocritical from them._ But one of the big differences here is the Israeli government is reacting to the murder of other Palestinians (not Israelis). Anyway this is still off topic. _The release ignores a couple of provisions of the Oslo treaty, but that is not at all unusual. And given that the Israelis have a track record for not releasing anyone they don’t like, regardless of sentence, they should be a bit timid about talking about release dates._ Israel is not going to release anyone who they feel is a legit threat. But seeing how the PA could not even contain the people who were released (as per the agreement) it seems like their fears were just. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mahmoud-abbas-end-palestinian-terrorism-and-produce-a-palestinian-state/172131.md?page=3)