Will Meat Just Be Obsolete Some Day?

Great Debates
81

And that’s just the thing. We all have different standards. Your standards don’t need to be met before I make the switch, and I’m sure that there will be others who make the switch before I do.

At some point, you will think it’s good enough, but someone else will not.

There will be no magical moment when suddenly it’s good enough and at that time it gets accepted. It will be a on a continuum that is based more on price than on quality.

If “more or less” isn’t good enough for you, but it’s $2 a lb vs the cow grown ground beef at $15, I’m sure that many of us will overlook any minor quality issues that we encounter.

82

Most beef and lamb is (mostly) pastured. I don’t think chicken, turkey, or pork often are. Mostly they are reared entirely indoors and fed manufactured feed.

83

Not literally manufactured but wheat and corn grown for the purpose. Which makes me think we would do well to find acceptable substitutes for those for feeding livestock. (Although industrially farmed hybrid corn is darn near as cheap as any food technology we currently possess. Algae probably wouldn’t be cost competitive).

84

Cattle is mostly grazed yes, but not exclusively for the lifetime of the livestock (usually they’re finished in a feedlot on other stuff), and not, I doubt, “on land unsuitable for agriculture”.

85

I don’t know why rabbit fell out of favor - used to be a lot more common. My dad briefly raised rabbit during the Great Depression to help out his family. But there’s a cultural taboo in North America against eating horses that’s almost as great as the one against eating dogs. Americans have never eaten horse except in the most desperate circumstances, and if I recall horse slaughter even for dog meat was banned some years ago.

Just want to point out that radish greens are entirely edible by humans. I’ve eaten them myself. A bit strong flavored to eat just on their own, most folks will want to mix them with something else.

86

I don’t know why it went out of favor. I’ve had rabbit, and it’s not bad. Hard to say that I liked it when it was something quite different than what I’ve had before, but I’m sure I’d get used to it and enjoy it just fine if it were more than a twice in my lifetime thing.

I do suspect that at some point, rabbit may make a comeback, as raising larger animals for slaughter becomes less practical.

87

The problem is that stuff is easy to use for animal feed on a small farm, but hard to do on an industrial scale.

88

National and International laws and treaties intensely manage wildlife resources through the granting of hunting/fishing licenses and quotas. When wildlife is no longer a resource, any management short of some kind of birth control will have to be done through culling; an activity that I doubt will be tolerated by a society that has abandoned meat-eating for ethical reasons.

89

Margarine companies definitely dispute that their product is more harmful than butter.

90

They would, I suppose, as it would be in their best interests to do so, but in what way are they doing so?

Are they actually claiming that trans-fats aren’t bad for you?

Now, they do have a different process than hydrogenation that solidifies vegetable oils differently, but it has not universally caught on, as it is more expensive and tastes differently.

91

Becel (which is what we use) claims theirs has no transfat.

92

The above is actually a reason to continue to allow limited meat-eating - to keep wildlife herbivores in check now that most of the predators have been exterminated. The wealthy can have their luxury, the herds culled, and nothing goes to waste. Which strikes me as a win-win.

But the uninformed and/or foolish would, I suppose, prefer animals to suffer a miserable death from starvation and/or disease due to overpopulation than a quick shot and quick death.

93

Truly freeranged birds are and a lot of pigs are fed slop and waste.

94

I don’t know if I’m “uninformed” or “foolish” but I think wild animals should live or die based on the Darwinian principle of survival of the fittest, even if that means some starve to death or die of disease.

95

This is partially true. As a person of Indian origin, I’ve not met vegans in India. All vegetarians, I know in India, consume milk or milk products. And only about 1/3 of the population is vegetarian (and drink milk) - cite :

Also wherever fish (seafood) is plenty, people consume seafood regardless of culture.

96

I mostly buy pastured birds and only buy pastured pork. But that’s a small minority of the chicken/turkey/pork produced in the US. I was responding to a claim that most meat animals are reared on pasture.

97

True, only beef (but quite a few are feedlot fattened), sheep and goat are pastured, swine are rarely so.

But we could eat only meat which is pastured or fed on waste- however, we’d have to reduce our meat consumption by quite a bit- which would be a Good Thing, anyway.

98

You can look at the history of margarine for a good idea of how meat may go in the future.

Margarine didn’t come about for health or ethical reasons, it came about because butter was relatively expensive, and someone figured out a neat chemical trick to turn liquid oils into solids.

Margarine largely replaced butter in many places. You usually had the option of butter, but it was more expensive, and was considered to be bad for your health.

I actually preferred butter to margarine, but except for special occasions or if we were baking something that needed the real thing, we went with the partially hydrogenated oils. When I became responsible for my own dietary intake, I pretty much stuck with butter.

Then it comes along that margarine is actually pretty bad for you. It contains fats that don’t really metabolize well in the body. It’s not poison, exactly, but I’m sure it can and will be linked to many heart conditions.

So people pulled back on margarine, and some products came out, like Becel (Promise for us USians), that did not contain those nasty chemicals.

However, it is more expensive. Still probably cheaper than butter, but more than it would be if it were made the old way. It is also not exactly sustainable, as it uses palm oil, and that’s a whole environmental disaster of an industry itself.

In the end though, my grocer’s cooler has probably three or four times as much plant based spreadable product as it has butter. They come in a wide variety of types and formulations, and most, but not all, are cheaper than butter.

But there is still butter.

I see the meat industry not necessarily ending up in a similar place, as I don’t think that the evolution of spreadable product from processed plant based oils is over, but I do see it going through a similar phase as it too evolves.

Maybe a hundred years from now, food that comes from killing animals will be very rare and considered to be barbaric by most, but I don’t see it going away entirely, and I think it will be a long process to get there.

99

Disney bugs bunny and the like in mass media in what became called “the bambi effect” … and rabbit can be cooked pretty much like chicken (it’s still considered poultry)

in an amusing side note in one of the kids’ dinosaur cartoon shows, they have a real-life paleontologist who explains the “real version” of the episode and it was explained that chickens are the closest things to dinosaurs we have these days

Well, my nephew didn’t like chicken until his 9-year-old mind correlated that he was eating dinosaur nuggets, and all of a sudden it became cool …

100

I’m not talking about normal circumstances where, in fact, a number of deer die of disease and starvation, I’m talking about something like deer populations where nearly all predators are gone, populations can boom massively, and you wind up with massive die offs from long, lingering starvation. It’s not at all a natural situation.

Humans have removed virtually all deer predators in some areas, so they multiply without restraint. The situation is our fault, it’s not natural. If we’ve removed the predators - which is the natural check on species like deer - then it’s up to us to take on that role. Or restore the predators, but the average suburbanite who thinks “Bambi” is pretty seems reluctant to have wolves and bears tromping through their backyards. They also get pretty upset waking up to deer carcasses lying on their front lawns or driveways when they die of starvation.

Human hunting of deer replaces the otherwise missing predators. It also removes the slow, stupid, foolish, and incautious from the deer population. I don’t know why some folks think that humans aren’t part of the world ecosystem and part of the Darwinian winnowing of species.