# Will men ever give up suits and ties? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640 "2016-07-23T00:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/21 "2016-07-23T13:50:21Z")
Right, right. I don’t go by the numbers except as a rough guide (I don’t trust those to be consistent anyway), but by how it feels. I just didn’t know how it was supposed to feel before. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/22 "2016-07-23T14:04:19Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > For formal events they still pretty much are stuck with a suit and tie. > > Women have many more options now . they can wear pants at most events . > > BTW, I am talking about the US /Europe/Japan/Australia/Canada and similar places. I know that in some places ties/suits were never required . You’ve evidently never visited a “modern” church. There are scads and scads of churches where a man who wears dress pants instead of jeans is an outlier. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/23 "2016-07-23T14:20:26Z")
Will we always have formal occasions and situations where men are expected to dress up? Yes, I think so. Those occasions and situations are fewer and far betweener than they were in most of the twentieth century, but they certainly haven’t vanished completely, and I don’t think they will. It’s possible they’ll continue to lessen, but it’s also possible that the pendulum will start to swing the other way at some point and men will start dressing up more. Will suits and ties ever be replaced by something else as the essence of what men wear to dress up? It’s remotely possible, maybe more than remotely if you go far enough into the future, but it would have to be replaced by something else that looks good on a wide variety of men (the stout, the skinny, the elderly) and isn’t completely utilitarian, and I don’t know what that something would consist of. ---
**Author:** ![pseudograph](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pseudograph/32/19768_2.png) [@pseudograph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudograph)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/24 "2016-07-23T15:35:02Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > We can scrap the tie, but I’d hate to see men’s suits go extinct—styles just need updating to 21st century aesthetic standards. > > These are my top picks for various dress categories: > Men’s [Business Standard](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/41/a5/d6/41a5d69ba8b243731c8c254257cbc855.jpg) > Men’s [Business Casual](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f0/bc/09/f0bc09b3a7921b3c083976b177455a80.jpg) > Men’s [Tuxedo Formal](http://www.nerdygaga.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/weird-and-funny-mens-fashion-show.jpg) > Women’s [Everyday Wear](http://lgcdn.amiclubwear.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/o/costume-bedroom-gggg10-bc6046cpnavyblack.jpg) Glad I took the time to click on those. Thanks for the chuckles. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/25 "2016-07-23T17:44:16Z")
women used to complain about wearing hose but now they stopped doing that except for some older women. Tim Kaine made his debut with Clinton today, but he’s not wearing a tie. Just a dress shirt and jacket. That surprises me. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/26 "2016-07-23T18:04:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m talking about physical discomfort. > > As for being anachronism, one could say the same thing about skirts and dresses. The fact that you don’t like a fashion item doesn’t mean it’s in the wrong time period any more than the fact that I don’t like one does. I think the custom of young black menof wearing their pans so as to expose their asses is unattractive, but it’s not anachronistic. > > Ties feel uncomfortable – by which I mean too tight – when the collar about which tehey’re fastened are smaller than is appropriate. And that happens when the wearer does not trouble himself to try the shirt on before buying it. Guys assume that their neck size is as immutable as the arm length, which is clearly not true. When a shirt stops fitting well they tell themselves it’s because the shirt has shrunk in the laundry, not because their necks have expanded. Hell, you see the same thing with pants. I think the other things for me are both the hassle of putting all of that stuff on, and the fact that for several months out of the year the weather is pretty hot and humid, and I’d really rather not be wearing layers of dark clothing. now, I do shut up and wear a suit for occasions where it’s expected, I just don’t like it 😃 but yeah, I’ll take your point about the shirts. It’s very difficult for me to find a shirt which simultaneously fits my neck, shoulders, chest, arms, and abdomen/waist. I realize the solution is to have one tailored/fitted, but I just don’t wear this stuff often enough. maybe on average once a year at most. Weddings, job interviews, and funerals. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/27 "2016-07-23T18:11:03Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I think the other things for me are both the hassle of putting all of that stuff on, and the fact that for several months out of the year the weather is pretty hot and humid, and I’d really rather not be wearing layers of dark clothing. > > now, I do shut up and wear a suit for occasions where it’s expected, I just don’t like it 😃 > > but yeah, I’ll take your point about the shirts. It’s very difficult for me to find a shirt which simultaneously fits my neck, shoulders, chest, arms, and abdomen/waist. I realize the solution is to have one tailored/fitted, but I just don’t wear this stuff often enough. maybe on average once a year at most. Weddings, job interviews, and funerals. I like wearing suits and look forward to colder weather. In warm weather I’ll drop the jacket. As for the belly problem: you have to know what to look for. You can buy full-cut shirts off the rack. The big thing, though, is to try the shirts (and pants) on before you buy them. And if it’s a shirt you plan to wear with a tie, try it that way too. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/28 "2016-07-23T18:22:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I like wearing suits and look forward to colder weather. In warm weather I’ll drop the jacket. > > As for the belly problem: you have to know what to look for. You can buy full-cut shirts off the rack. > > The big thing, though, is to try the shirts (and pants) on before you buy them. And if it’s a shirt you plan to wear with a tie, try it that way too. that’s the thing- I don’t _have_ a gut. but shirts which fit my shoulder width assume I do, so they billow out away from me. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/29 "2016-07-23T18:27:11Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > I did, a long time ago, I don’t own either suit or tie, I don’t go to locations or events where they’re “required”, and if it was up to me, I’d destroy every last suit and tie n the planet, I hate 'em that much. QFT. I think I own one pair of dress slacks that don’t likely fit, one dress shirt that doesn’t fit either, and I’d be hard-pressed to figure out where my ties are. If an event requires dress different than what I usually wear, fuck it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/30 "2016-07-23T19:51:38Z")
Why should I give up suits? A well-fitting suit is comfortable and looks awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/31 "2016-07-23T19:59:17Z")
not sure how men would wear a suit and tie for 8 hours in an office before AC was in every building. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/32 "2016-07-23T20:12:23Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I find ties uncomfortable because they’re an anachronism. people wear them because other people tell them they have to wear them. Not really. The neck tie dates back to the 1640s when Louis XIV began wearing a cravat and it quickly became an item of style. The piece of cloth was also useful for wiping ones lips and nose. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/33 "2016-07-23T20:24:03Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > not sure how men would wear a suit and tie for 8 hours in an office before AC was in every building. I think the business suit evolved in cooler climates where keeping warm at the office was usually a bigger problem than keeping cool. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/34 "2016-07-23T20:45:30Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > For formal events they still pretty much are stuck with a suit and tie. > > Women have many more options now . they can wear pants at most events . > > BTW, I am talking about the US /Europe/Japan/Australia/Canada and similar places. I know that in some places ties/suits were never required . Why would we want to? Nice thing about being a guy is that I don’t have to worry about _what_ to wear to formal events, just if my formal wear is relatively new enough and clean. My wife has to decide “dress?” “suit?” “that combo I wore last week?” Me, I’m like “shirt, slacks, jacket, shoes, done.” I live in San Antonio and ties are largely optional, but I have plenty if needed. Formal: tie. Informal: no tie. Why mess with such a simple system? Last thing I want is variability in men’s clothing where I have to give what I’m wearing to some formal occasion much thought. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/35 "2016-07-23T21:12:32Z")
I live in Silicon Valley. What are these suits and ties of which you speak? Around here if one person in a business meeting has a suit, and the other does not, it is highly likely that the one without the suit has more power/prestige/money. I have a suit, but I have no more daughters to marry off and nearly everyone older than me in my family has died already, so it might be many years before I need it again. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/36 "2016-07-23T23:39:51Z")
**Thudlow Boink** , yes, the business suit as we know it is mostly a British Isles creation, but people in the first half of the 20th century were wearing full suits through New York City summers, which can be muggy as all get out and you would not even have the Southern relief of open porches and seersucker. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Tim Kaine made his debut with Clinton today, but he’s not wearing a tie. Just a dress shirt and jacket. That surprises me. Then again it was at a college campus in Miami in the daytime, so full Business Dress would not be expected. Me, I do not mind the “uniform” and indeed it simplifies everyday life as well as event planning just as real uniforms do. But just as long as wearing it satisfies expectations by itself. Don’t begin giving me flak for wearing it “wrong” (come on, the President wears a tan suit in the Washington summer and people give him a hard time? get real jobs, yoyos). And if it comes down to having to choose comfort v. style I’ll choose the former every time. Like \*\*Voyager \*\*said, if you have _ **real** _ power you dress like you want, it’s the new paradigm. The necktie is decorative froufrou that could vanish leaving the world no poorer, but while it exists it does not harm me, I just refuse to spend real money on it. One thing that has been mentioned repeatedly is that properly tailored suits and shirts are actually comfortable to wear and that what you get off the rack is often made with a margin for alterations. But then we get into a circular argument because for many people the next question will be: “well, why\* not \*make clothing that fits well off the rack to begin with?”(\*Answer: because even with Third-World sweatshop labor we couldn’t possibly customize for every living human body shape and make a profit at $17 per shirt) Or, more pointedly: “you sell me something that needs to be further modified and altered to really fit me, and I have to pay extra out of my own pocket for that? Fuggeddaboutit, get over seeing my sleeves be an inch too long, what’s it to ya?” And that feeling I can understand. My WAG is that today the overwhelming majority of men wear the overwhelming majority of their clothing straight off the rack and barely remember to remove the pricetag. And hey, I’m OK with that, as long as your clothes are clean and well put together. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/37 "2016-07-24T00:39:41Z")
> [@pseudograph](#): > > Glad I took the time to click on those. Thanks for the chuckles. Chuckles? What do you mean, I’m funny? You mean the way I talk? What? Funny how? What’s funny about it? You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it’s me, I’m a little f_ **ed up maybe, but I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I’m here to f** _in’ amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/38 "2016-07-24T01:01:56Z")
Suits I can take or leave - I don’t particularly like wearing them myself, but some men do look dashing in 'em. I mostly look like a thin troll in a potato sack. It’s fine. Ties (and bowties) however can fuck right off. I will never, ever, ever wear one ever. Not for work, not for job interviews, not for weddings or funerals, not if it’s the only thing between us and global thermonuclear warfare. Just no. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/39 "2016-07-24T01:24:09Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > yes but in some businesses guys don’t have the choice to give them up, such as law and banking and wall street. It’s starting to change. I work at one of the biggest law firms in the country, and the guys wear suits and ties only when they have to go to court or meet with clients. Otherwise it’s business casual. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640/40 "2016-07-24T01:29:51Z")
I think we are overlooking the benefits of wearing a suit - which also applies to women who wear business apparel. A suit conveys formality, seriousness, and respect. Furthermore simply wearing a suit helps that person to think in a more considered way. From the Atlantic - " Rutchick and his co-authors found that wearing clothing that’s more formal than usual makes people think more broadly and holistically, rather than narrowly and about fine-grained details." > **[Wearing a Suit Makes You Think Differently](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/04/wearing-a-suit-makes-people-think-differently/391802/)** > > Formalwear elicits feelings of power, which change some mental processes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-men-ever-give-up-suits-and-ties/760640.md?page=3)