# Will Mississippi finally change state flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941 "2017-08-18T04:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/1 "2017-08-18T04:24:11Z")
Given all the controversy surrounding statues, will Mississippi finally get rid of the current design and get something less offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/2 "2017-08-18T04:29:13Z")
I very much doubt it. I suspect there’s just as much support for making the canton even larger as there is for replacing it. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/3 "2017-08-18T04:40:33Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Given all the controversy surrounding statues, will Mississippi finally get rid of the current design and get something less offensive? > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I very much doubt it. I suspect there’s just as much support for making the canton even larger as there is for replacing it. I suspect if you held a referendum to have the CSA battle flag replace Old Glory the majority of residents of Mississippi (and Alabama) would vote in favor. That’s how backward most citizens of those states (and a good segment in other neighboring states) think when this issue comes up. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/4 "2017-08-18T06:51:34Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I suspect if you held a referendum to have the CSA battle flag replace Old Glory the majority of residents of Mississippi (and Alabama) would vote in favor. That’s how backward most citizens of those states (and a good segment in other neighboring states) think when this issue comes up. Any data for that? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/5 "2017-08-18T13:10:15Z")
The last referendum on changing the state flag was in 2001. It was defeated by a margin of 64% to 36%. I don’t know how it would go today, but I believe it would be much closer. All eight of Mississippi’s state universities (one of which is my employer) have stopped flying the flag, largely in response to pressure from students, and while there have been some attempts to introduce legislation that would _require_ all public colleges and universities to display the flag, they’ve died a quiet death – this in a far-right state legislature with a Republican supermajority. Both of Mississippi’s (Republican) senators have supported redesigning the flag, as has the speaker of the state House of Representatives. In short, the idea of replacing the flag is well within the mainstream among _Republicans_ at this point, and supported by a number of people you wouldn’t necessarily expect to support it. OTOH, if the decision ends up being made by referendum, it will run into the usual obstacle that the people who vote in referendums are older, whiter, and more conservative than the state as a whole, so I wouldn’t want to bet on which way it would go. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/6 "2017-08-18T15:27:20Z")
The new flag proposed in the 2001 referendum was actually [a very nice design](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi#/media/File:Mississippi_2001_flag_proposal.svg), replacing the confederate canton with a field of white stars on blue and retaining the rest of the design unchanged. That they rejected it in favor of the racist symbol speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/7 "2017-08-18T15:36:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Any data for that? > **[List of U.S. states and territories by educational attainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_educational_attainment)** > > This list of U.S. states and territories by educational attainment covers the 50 U.S. states, the District of Columbia, and the territory of Puerto Rico and their populations' educational attainment for all people of at least 25 years of age. The four other inhabited U.S. territories (American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, and the U.S. Virgin Islands) are listed separately. > The data source for the main list is the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey in 2021. The data s... ETA: [https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/mississippi](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/mississippi) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/8 "2017-08-18T15:46:52Z")
In related news, a Cleveland, Ohio area high school football team called the Rebels has decided to dump its mascot. _"The district’s South High School removed Confederate imagery from its uniforms and stopped using the “Stars and Bars” to promote sports in 1993. However, the name and the mascot stayed. The icon is a man dressed in a gray military outfit, the color of Confederate uniforms in the Civil War. "_ > **[Willoughby South High School drops rebel mascot, keeps name](https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2017/08/willoughby_south_high_school_d.html)** > > Willoughby-Eastlake City Schools will have a press conference today to discuss the district's decision to drop the mascot representing the South High Rebels, although they are keeping the name. What bizarre thinking led this school to allow Confederate imagery in the first place? I’m pretty sure the Cleveland area didn’t field any regiments fighting for the South in the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/9 "2017-08-18T21:18:43Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The new flag proposed in the 2001 referendum was actually [a very nice design](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi#/media/File:Mississippi_2001_flag_proposal.svg), replacing the confederate canton with a field of white stars on blue and retaining the rest of the design unchanged. That they rejected it in favor of the racist symbol speaks volumes. That is better than the modified version of the Confederate flag that Georgia went with in 2003 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/10 "2017-08-19T00:06:19Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What bizarre thinking led this school to allow Confederate imagery in the first place? I’m pretty sure the Cleveland area didn’t field any regiments fighting for the South in the Civil War. The Willoughby-Eastlake school district’s high school was named Union (for the union of Eastlake and Willoughby) High School prior to the 1960s. I do not know the exact date. As the early waves of Baby Boomers hit the school district, the decision was made to create two separate high schools to handle the growing enrollment. The new schools were named North and South. This occurred at about the time that the centennial of the Civil War was being celebrated and the new South school, (with its separation from the previous Union HS), took the name Rebels. I suspect that there was not a lot of association with slavery and the Civil War in the minds of white northern suburbanites (and it is always cool to be a rebel). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/11 "2017-08-19T00:09:16Z")
[Images of the flag(s) of Mississippi.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi) ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/12 "2017-08-19T00:22:09Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Given all the controversy surrounding statues, will Mississippi finally get rid of the current design and get something less offensive? “less offensive”… What exactly about the flag is “offensive”? Why do you consider it “offensive”? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/13 "2017-08-19T00:44:55Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > “less offensive”… What exactly about the flag is “offensive”? Why do you consider it “offensive”? I’m not the OP, but my guess is going to be the mini-flag in the corner of the state flag that celebrates treason, white supremacy, and slavery. It was added in 1894, probably during one of the KKK resurgences or maybe just a white supremacy resurgence. OP, please let me know if I’ve guess correctly. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/14 "2017-08-19T00:45:47Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > “less offensive”… What exactly about the flag is “offensive”? Why do you consider it “offensive”? Did you happen to look at the posted link to images of the flag? Are you aware of the serious disputes regarding the use of the Confederate battle flag, (not the national banner), that have been playing out for may years, including the fact that that flag has only been added as part of several states’ flag long after the Civil War, generally in the periods when various Southern states were attempting to establish Jim Crow laws (Mississippi) or more recently to oppose Federal Civil Rights legislation (Georgia)? Given that history, your question appears to be a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/15 "2017-08-19T00:47:29Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Did you happen to look at the posted link to images of the flag? Are you aware of the serious disputes regarding the use of the Confederate battle flag, (not the national banner), that have been playing out for may years, including the fact that that flag has only been added as part of several states’ flag long after the Civil War, generally in the periods when various Southern states were attempting to establish Jim Crow laws (Mississippi) or more recently to oppose Federal Civil Rights legislation (Georgia)? > > Given that history, your question appears to be a bit odd. Well, his user name is **Oddball\_92** , so maybe that’s what he’s going for. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/16 "2017-08-19T01:00:27Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Well, his user name is **Oddball\_92** , so maybe that’s what he’s going for. Given that this is Great Debates and not The BBQ Pit, let’s try to avoid making personal comments. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/17 "2017-08-19T01:03:42Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > “less offensive”… What exactly about the flag is “offensive”? Why do you consider it “offensive”? It’s the part of the flag where the people of the state symbolically declare their continuing support for Mississippi’s [declaration](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp) that “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/18 "2017-08-19T01:04:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Given that this is Great Debates and not The BBQ Pit, let’s try to avoid making personal comments. > > [/Moderating] Understood. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/19 "2017-08-19T01:12:27Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > “less offensive”… What exactly about the flag is “offensive”? Why do you consider it “offensive”? The fact that the canton is the Confederate army’s battle flag is offensive to me. It is a symbol of treason, slavery, and racism. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941/20 "2017-08-19T01:22:13Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > [List of U.S. states and territories by educational attainment - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_educational_attainment) > ETA: [https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/mississippi](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/mississippi) Those links have 0 relevance in support of the assertion that a majority of those states would vote to replace the US flag. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-mississippi-finally-change-state-flag/793941.md?page=2)