# Will My DOG Achieve Salvation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757 "2003-07-07T13:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/1 "2003-07-07T13:03:15Z")
The Bible says very little about domestic animals…(they are referred to as "beasts of the field "). Inother words, they are just gifts from God, to be used by us (we have domination over them). Later (Catholic) theology tackled the issue…and theologians decided that as subjects ofhumans, we owe the animals no duty of charity or humanity. Yet, given the closeness of the man-dog relationship, is it possible that the dogs will share in man’s transfiguration? I find it a depressing thopught that heaven will not include out 4pawes friends! ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/2 "2003-07-07T13:10:08Z")
As the dyslexic agnostic said, one cannot know whether there is a dog. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/3 "2003-07-07T13:11:29Z")
If there aren’t dogs and cats in Heaven, I am not interested in going. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/4 "2003-07-07T13:31:42Z")
CS Lewis had this formula- God raised Christ, Christ raises us, we raise our beloved animals ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/5 "2003-07-07T14:18:03Z")
A recent conversation with my sister went along these lines: Sis: Animals do not get into heaven Me: Why not? S: Because they don’t have souls M: Can something live without a soul S: Maybe I mean spirits, yes, animals have souls, but not spirits M: Why would that mean that they don’t get into heaven? S: Because you need a spirit M: They seem to manage fine on Earth without a spirit, why wouldn’t they manage fine in Heaven without one? S: But the Bible says… \… M: I think heaven will be terribly disappointing for some people, if there are no animals, electric guitars, beer and Stilton cheese… S: No, because you simply won’t desire any of those things in heaven. M: Then I simply won’t be _me_. S: \ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/6 "2003-07-07T14:37:12Z")
“One of the leaders”? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/7 "2003-07-07T14:58:45Z")
We have a superintendent minister, who looks after a circuit of seven churches, then we have a number of elected lay leaders, stewards, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/8 "2003-07-07T16:41:47Z")
I sense heresy. A cat already considers itself god. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/9 "2003-07-07T17:05:09Z")
Why would animals require salvation? They never fell as man did. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/10 "2003-07-07T17:16:37Z")
Excellent points, **Grey.** Isn’t there some old saying that when we arrive in heaven, all the pets we owned (that passed away) will coming running up to greet us? Sure hope so… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/11 "2003-07-07T17:47:30Z")
Oh Lord… I can expect a visit from some put-out Goldfish and an angry Hermit crab. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/12 "2003-07-07T17:52:59Z")
Ooops. I had an ant-farm when little. Did I ruin Heaven’s picknicks for everybody? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/13 "2003-07-07T17:53:12Z")
And all those ants you fried in the sun. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weak\_Force](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9dc877/32.png) [@The\_Weak\_Force](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weak_Force)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/14 "2003-07-07T20:51:35Z")
Mu. ---
**Author:** ![greck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ab992/32.png) [@greck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greck)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/15 "2003-07-07T21:33:32Z")
I know mine’s not, He KNOWS he’s not supposed to chew my socks, and he does it anyway… so that’s a moral failure on his part right? Does the fact that he comes and licks my face when I yell at him constitute repentance? Does that make me his priest? seriously though, The way I read the bible, the earth and all the beasts pretty much are here for us, I don’t think they’re sentient. Too bad, I was just kidding about my dog being a sinner, he’s really good. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/16 "2003-07-07T21:53:28Z")
Dog spelled backwards, of course, is God. But the mirroring does not end with this simple spelling reversal! Note well the canine inclination to coprophagy: dog eats its own creation. Now note the dog/god inverse: God is himself eaten by his own creation, in the form of the eucharist. And dogs bury bones, while in the story of Lazarus, God performed the exact opposite. And at birth, puppies have to be chewed out of their birth sacks, while at death, we have to go back shrouded. I could go on, but I better stop now and catch my breath after the profundity of this much so far. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/17 "2003-07-07T22:48:29Z")
Short answer: I dunno. Long discursive informative-but-pointless Poly-type answer: According to the medieveal theologians, plants have “vegetable soul” more or less equivalent to what we mean by "they’re living things. Animals have “sensitive soul” meaning that they are living things possessed of movement. Humans have “rational soul” which means that in addition to the others, they have reason and a moral sense, and free will. It takes free will and a sense of morality to be able to sin; just because something is a “bad” act by our standards does not make it a sin. We fear leopards and great white sharks, because they will kill and eat us if they can, but we do not attach to them the moral repulsion that we do to Hannibal Lector. So, Ralph, with no insult intended, your dog has a much better chance of salvation than you – he never lost it, and he is incapable of fucking up, which is not true for you, regardless of your current moral state. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/18 "2003-07-08T00:25:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*your dog has a much better chance of salvation than you – he never lost it, and he is incapable of fucking up, which is not true for you, regardless of your current moral state. \*\* I agree wholeheartedly - I am agnostic, and yet believe in the “happy hunting grounds.” Illogical as it sounds, it’s my hope. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/19 "2003-07-08T00:40:23Z")
According to that theology, \*\*\*I \*\*\*won’t even get into heaven; why should I care about your damn dog? ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757/20 "2003-07-08T02:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > \*\*According to that theology, \*\*\*I \*\*\*won’t even get into heaven; why should I care about your damn dog? \*\* You shouldn’t. I’m sure you have your own theology, and are at peace with your vision of the afterlife. Don’t be bitchy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-my-dog-achieve-salvation/186757.md?page=2)