# Will Obama dare to veto the Keystone XL pipeline? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879 "2014-11-17T18:46:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/41 "2014-11-20T11:10:43Z")
When a pipeline has already pretty much ruined the Kalamazoo River, for just one example, why should I believe that Keystone XL will be any safer? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/42 "2014-11-20T13:25:48Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > When a pipeline has already pretty much ruined the Kalamazoo River, for just one example, why should I believe that Keystone XL will be any safer? New technology. Double walled. Sensors. Automatic shut off valves. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/43 "2014-11-20T14:34:06Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > New technology. > Double walled. > Sensors. > Automatic shut off valves. Also, the alternative technology is using trains, which involves the risk of spills due to train wrecks, old leaky tank cars, or just carelessness in the loading/unloading process. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/44 "2014-11-20T14:55:31Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Also, the alternative technology is using trains, which involves the risk of spills due to train wrecks, old leaky tank cars, or just carelessness in the loading/unloading process. Or, of course, the complete destruction of the core of a small town. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/45 "2014-11-20T15:19:57Z")
I saw [this](http://www.salon.com/2014/11/19/house_republicans_just_passed_a_bill_forbidding_scientists_from_advising_the_epa_on_their_own_research/) this morning: > [@](#): > > In what might be the most ridiculous aspect of the whole thing, the bill forbids scientific experts from participating in “advisory activities” that either directly or indirectly involve their own work. In case that wasn’t clear: experts would be forbidden from _sharing their expertise in their own research_ — the bizarre assumption, apparently, being that having conducted peer-reviewed studies on a topic would constitute a conflict of interest. “In other words,” wrote Union of Concerned Scientists director Andrew A. Rosenberg in an editorial for RollCall, “academic scientists who know the most about a subject can’t weigh in, but experts paid by corporations who want to block regulations can.” > > Speaking on the House floor Tuesday, Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass., summed up what was going on: “I get it, you don’t like science,” he told bill sponsor Rep. Chris Stewart, R-Utah… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/46 "2014-11-20T17:17:36Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Do you have any cite to back up this “safer” claim? What are the safety statistics of pipeline vs. rail, in terms of deaths per X barrels transported, or amount spilled per X barrels transported? [Its complicated](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/26/pick-your-poison-for-crude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/?optimizely=a) but in terms of deaths, rail is worse it seems. But rail is ramping up due to lack of pipeline capacity. So we can expect bigger trains and bigger spills. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/47 "2014-11-20T19:32:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I saw [this](http://www.salon.com/2014/11/19/house_republicans_just_passed_a_bill_forbidding_scientists_from_advising_the_epa_on_their_own_research/) this morning: But…that doesn’t make any sense. I thought we wanted _safe_ transportation of fossil fuels. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/48 "2014-11-20T21:09:47Z")
Gas is already down to really cheap levels now, I’m so glad Obama is our president and can take credit for it! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/49 "2014-11-20T21:37:07Z")
Indeed - [it only has to go down thirty cents a gallon or so, in constant dollars, before it is as cheap as when he became President](http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_a.htm). Although, to be fair, Obama did finally [figure out that fracking](http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/02/12/president-obama-gets-it-fracking-is-awesome/)is a good thing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/50 "2014-11-20T22:46:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Indeed - [it only has to go down thirty cents a gallon or so, in constant dollars, before it is as cheap as when he became President](http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_a.htm). In other words, this commodity is now almost as cheap as it was at the peak of the worst recession since the Great Depression. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/51 "2014-11-20T22:50:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > [Its complicated](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/26/pick-your-poison-for-crude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/?optimizely=a) but in terms of deaths, rail is worse it seems. But rail is ramping up due to lack of pipeline capacity. So we can expect bigger trains and bigger spills. Thanks. But the cite does say pipelines are worse than rail for spills. And bigger trains might lead to bigger individual spills, but not to a larger fraction of the transported oil being spilled. And newer tanker cars are safer than older ones. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/52 "2014-11-20T22:56:58Z")
The jokes on me. I started this thread assuming Keystone would easily pass through Congress. Turns out they were one vote short. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/53 "2014-11-20T23:07:29Z")
We can come back and do this thread again next spring. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/54 "2014-11-21T05:52:37Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Do you have any cite to back up this “safer” claim? What are the safety statistics of pipeline vs. rail, in terms of deaths per X barrels transported, or amount spilled per X barrels transported? > [@Leaffan](#): > > New technology. > Double walled. > Sensors. > Automatic shut off valves. > [@Diceman](#): > > Also, the alternative technology is using trains, which involves the risk of spills due to train wrecks, old leaky tank cars, or just carelessness in the loading/unloading process. > [@Leaffan](#): > > Or, of course, the complete destruction of the core of a small town. > [@CarnalK](#): > > [Its complicated](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/26/pick-your-poison-for-crude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/?optimizely=a) but in terms of deaths, rail is worse it seems. But rail is ramping up due to lack of pipeline capacity. So we can expect bigger trains and bigger spills. This. Thanks for all the cites while I was out of town, folks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/55 "2014-11-21T10:18:06Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Having vast wealthy corporations control the terms of the discourse seems utterly Un-American. You’re not from around here, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/56 "2015-01-06T20:54:51Z")
President Obama is [reportedly](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd9253ce-95d8-11e4-be7d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3O4kg1mL1) planning to veto legislation to approve the Keystone XL pipeline. What, if anything, is the principled reason for him to block the pipeline? If there is none, what is the political calculus? What does he gain from going against [public opinion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline#Public_opinion)? ISTM that oil from the Athabasca oil sands will be sold on the world market regardless of whether it goes to US refineries and US consumers, and is currently being transported to the US via rail. The straightforward economic argument in favor of the pipeline seems overwhelming ([1/3 the cost](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/26/pick-your-poison-for-crude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/) to transport via pipeline vs rail) and it seems like rail is quite prone to accidents resulting in death and spills. Anyone want to make the administration’s case? ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/57 "2015-01-06T20:57:07Z")
Hopefully it’s because he doesn’t want to make things immensely worse for his children, any potential grandchildren, and indeed anyone who will have to live through the consequences. Keep the oil in the soil, and the coal in the hole(s). ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/58 "2015-01-06T21:00:41Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Hopefully it’s because he doesn’t want to make things immensely worse for his children, any potential grandchildren, and indeed anyone who will have to live through the consequences. > > Keep the oil in the soil, and the coal in the hole(s). But keeping the oil in the soil isn’t on the menu of options. The oil is coming out of the soil and being exported among other places to the US via rail, which is expensive and dangerous. The menu of options is to transport the oil from the soil via rail or via pipeline. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/59 "2015-01-07T16:21:10Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > But keeping the oil in the soil isn’t on the menu of options. The oil is coming out of the soil and being exported among other places to the US via rail, which is expensive and dangerous. The menu of options is to transport the oil from the soil via rail or via pipeline. This is what evironmentalists don’t seem to be able to grasp. The oil is going to get pumped. There is too much money at stake for this not to happen, and Obama can’t do a thing to change that. The only questions are: (1) Does it go to the US? If not, it will almost certainly end up going to China. (2) Pipeline or trains? Pipelines are safer & cheaper than trains. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/60 "2015-01-07T17:05:57Z")
Just curious but does Canada lack the refining capacity to keep the oil (and jobs) in Canada ? I realize it is lower gravity crude but I would have assumed that some thought would have been given to this problem not long after the discoveries were made. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879.md?page=4)