# Will Obama dare to veto the Keystone XL pipeline? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879 "2014-11-17T18:46:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/61 "2015-01-07T17:53:49Z")
America has a pipeline running oil from Alaska, through Canada, to the lower 48. Why is the President against the Canadians having a pipeline running from Canada, through the U.S., to the Gulf Coast? Double standard? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/62 "2015-01-07T19:50:42Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > President Obama is [reportedly](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd9253ce-95d8-11e4-be7d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3O4kg1mL1) planning to veto legislation to approve the Keystone XL pipeline. > > What, if anything, is the principled reason for him to block the pipeline? If there is none, what is the political calculus? What does he gain from going against [public opinion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline#Public_opinion)? Public opinion doesn’t matter very much on issues that the public mostly doesn’t care about. The next question after any poll question on some issue should be, “to what extent do you actually give a shit about this issue?” If the only people who might actually be upset about it are people who were never going to vote Dem anyway, then public opinion is incidental. > [@](#): > > ISTM that oil from the Athabasca oil sands will be sold on the world market regardless of whether it goes to US refineries and US consumers, and is currently being transported to the US via rail. The straightforward economic argument in favor of the pipeline seems overwhelming ([1/3 the cost](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/26/pick-your-poison-for-crude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/) to transport via pipeline vs rail) and it seems like rail is quite prone to accidents resulting in death and spills. Anyone want to make the administration’s case? The Administration isn’t saying Obama is for or against the pipeline. It’s saying there’s already a procedure in place to evaluate the risks and rewards of the pipeline, and reach an evidence-based recommendation, and it wants to follow that procedure, rather than have it turned into a strictly political decision. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/63 "2015-01-07T19:55:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Indeed - [it only has to go down thirty cents a gallon or so, in constant dollars, before it is as cheap as when he became President](http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_a.htm). Can you say, “cherry-picking the benchmark”? I knew you could! > [@](#): > > Although, to be fair, Obama did finally [figure out that fracking](http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/02/12/president-obama-gets-it-fracking-is-awesome/)is a good thing. Yeah, tell those people in Oklahoma to just [ignore those earthquakes](http://newsok.com/earthquakes). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/64 "2015-01-07T22:51:47Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Hopefully it’s because he doesn’t want to make things immensely worse for his children, any potential grandchildren, and indeed anyone who will have to live through the consequences. > > Keep the oil in the soil, and the coal in the hole(s). It’s a lovely sentiment, and hopelessly naive. The oil is coming out, and it is going to be consumed. > [@Diceman](#): > > This is what evironmentalists don’t seem to be able to grasp. The oil is going to get pumped. There is too much money at stake for this not to happen, and Obama can’t do a thing to change that. The only questions are: > > (1) Does it go to the US? If not, it will almost certainly end up going to China.\ After all the rigamarole trying to do this pipeline, I would be happier if we could put the pipeline across Canada and just export to China and India and anyone else who wants the oil. It’s not like the US is our only market; just our closest one. > [@DrumBum](#): > > Just curious but does Canada lack the refining capacity to keep the oil (and jobs) in Canada ? > I realize it is lower gravity crude but I would have assumed that some thought would have been given to this problem not long after the discoveries were made. Canada does not have the refining capacity (although we are currently building [a diesel refinery in northern Alberta](https://www.nwrpartnership.com/)). Part of the reason for that is that Canada does not own the oil companies that are working in the oil sands - they are largely owned by US companies. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > America has a pipeline running oil from Alaska, through Canada, to the lower 48. Why is the President against the Canadians having a pipeline running from Canada, through the U.S., to the Gulf Coast? > > Double standard? I believe you mean _another_ pipeline - [there are pipelines throughout the US already.](http://www.capp.ca/getdoc.aspx?DocID=247758) > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Public opinion doesn’t matter very much on issues that the public mostly doesn’t care about. The next question after any poll question on some issue should be, “to what extent do you actually give a shit about this issue?” If the only people who might actually be upset about it are people who were never going to vote Dem anyway, then public opinion is incidental. > The Administration isn’t saying Obama is for or against the pipeline. It’s saying there’s already a procedure in place to evaluate the risks and rewards of the pipeline, and reach an evidence-based recommendation, and it wants to follow that procedure, rather than have it turned into a strictly political decision. In my opinion, all this hullaballoo over this one pipeline was caused by an environmental group making a huge stink, and President Obama caving to them. It’s just a political hot-potato. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/65 "2015-01-07T23:15:55Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > President Obama is [reportedly](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd9253ce-95d8-11e4-be7d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3O4kg1mL1) planning to veto legislation to approve the Keystone XL pipeline. > > What, if anything, is the principled reason for him to block the pipeline? If there is none, what is the political calculus? What does he gain from going against [public opinion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline#Public_opinion)? It’s going to depend on what sort of bullshit riders the Republicans try to attach to the bill. Anything that smacks of undermining his policies (healthcare, EPA funding, immigration) will likely earn a veto, and he’s told them that. They may attach those sorts of things knowing full well he’ll veto, so they can point accusatory fingers at him and claim that he’s not willing to work with them. Same old shit, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/66 "2015-01-08T17:32:13Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It’s going to depend on what sort of bullshit riders the Republicans try to attach to the bill. Anything that smacks of undermining his policies (healthcare, EPA funding, immigration) will likely earn a veto, and he’s told them that. They may attach those sorts of things knowing full well he’ll veto, so they can point accusatory fingers at him and claim that he’s not willing to work with them. Same old shit, in other words. How many Democrats are on board? It would only take a few for Congress to assemble a veto-proof majority. If this is the case, the sensible thing would be to leave the political wanking ammendments in the desk drawer. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/67 "2015-01-08T18:20:32Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > In my opinion, all this hullaballoo over this one pipeline was caused by an environmental group making a huge stink, and President Obama caving to them. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, and this is yours. But it’s hard for me to recall other times when Obama has caved to pressure from the left. Maybe I’m wrong, and this isn’t such an exceptional event. But when we libruls really wanted that public option as part of the ACA, Obama gave it lip service for a short while, then dropped it. When we were urging that he have the $1 trillion platinum coin minted so he could tell the GOP to shove it when they were holding our economy hostage with the debt ceiling, he ignored us. The likelihood that enviros got Obama to give in to their untremendous political pressure seems rather remote, AFAIAC. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/68 "2015-01-08T18:28:49Z")
I was under the impression that none of this oil would be sold to the United States anyway, it’s just a pipeline to help Canada export their oil to China easier? Why do so many people want to help China produce things cheaper? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/69 "2015-01-08T20:00:58Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > I was under the impression that none of this oil would be sold to the United States anyway, it’s just a pipeline to help Canada export their oil to China easier? Why do so many people want to help China produce things cheaper? Whaaaa??? That makes no sense at all. If the oil is going to go to China no matter what, then the sensible thing would be a pipeline to the Pacific coast, not one going to the Gulf. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/70 "2015-01-08T20:34:13Z")
I believe Obama will veto a pipeline bill. However, if the Republicans put the pipeline on the general spending/budget bill it will get passed with a veto-proof majority. Which illustrates why we need to get rid of pork and why we need line-item vetoes. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/71 "2015-01-08T21:01:45Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > This is what evironmentalists don’t seem to be able to grasp. The main environmental problem I have heard is the risk of leaks where the pipeline goes through aquifers and other bodies of water that are used as drinking supplies. > [@Diceman](#): > > (2) Pipeline or trains? Pipelines are safer & cheaper than trains. They have problems with trains as well - all it takes is one bridge over an aquifer or levee to collapse (because there was never any money available in infrastructure to repair/replace it) and have the tanker car empty its contents. I live about one mile from a refinery that recently started shipping oil by rail, since the supply exceeds the capacity of available tankers to move it out; there are quite a few signs on neighbors’ yards telling the company to stop it. > [@control-z](#): > > I believe Obama will veto a pipeline bill. However, if the Republicans put the pipeline on the general spending/budget bill it will get passed with a veto-proof majority. Which illustrates why we need to get rid of pork and why we need line-item vetoes. Good luck getting 67 Senators, 290 Representatives, and 38 state legislatures to agree with you. They tried the “not having to amend the Constitution” way of implementing this in 1997; the Supreme Court made it clear that the Constitution says that the President cannot be given the authority to approve part of a bill and veto the rest of it. Besides - do they even have “general spending/budget” bills any more? I thought it was done one department at a time now. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/72 "2015-01-09T19:21:59Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, and this is yours. > > But it’s hard for me to recall other times when Obama has caved to pressure from the left. Maybe I’m wrong, and this isn’t such an exceptional event. But when we libruls really wanted that public option as part of the ACA, Obama gave it lip service for a short while, then dropped it. When we were urging that he have the $1 trillion platinum coin minted so he could tell the GOP to shove it when they were holding our economy hostage with the debt ceiling, he ignored us. > > The likelihood that enviros got Obama to give in to their untremendous political pressure seems rather remote, AFAIAC. I think for some reason this has become personal for President Obama. I read a book about the environmental group that has aggressively campaigned against this pipeline - I wish I could remember the name of the group or the book. They’re very proud of their hard work in turning this pipeline into a hot potato, at any rate. > [@GrandWino](#): > > I was under the impression that none of this oil would be sold to the United States anyway, it’s just a pipeline to help Canada export their oil to China easier? Why do so many people want to help China produce things cheaper? Last December (I think it was), I saw President Obama on tv making some very dubious claims about the pipeline and the oil it would carry. Something about how it was all Canadian oil, and it would only benefit Canada, and some such bullshit like that. I can only imagine that US Americans listening to him wouldn’t have the perspective to realize he was completely talking out of his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/73 "2015-02-24T22:21:11Z")
[Apparently, yes.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/24/politics/obama-keystone-veto/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/74 "2015-02-24T22:26:37Z")
Obstructionism. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/75 "2015-02-24T23:56:49Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Whaaaa??? That makes no sense at all. If the oil is going to go to China no matter what, then the sensible thing would be a pipeline to the Pacific coast, not one going to the Gulf. There are mountains in the way. ---
**Author:** ![MrsTime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@MrsTime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrsTime)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/76 "2015-02-25T00:03:49Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Yes, but what is to be gained? The ruination of Canadian countryside, Harper (the wanna be a big boy) of course would give Canada to the US in a heartbeat if he could. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/77 "2015-02-25T00:24:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Obstructionism. …you mean he can’t wrap himself in the flag like all the whores on the OTHER side of the aisle? _Shocker_ ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/78 "2015-02-25T00:53:11Z")
> [@MrsTime](#): > > The ruination of Canadian countryside, Harper (the wanna be a big boy) of course would give Canada to the US in a heartbeat if he could. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/79 "2015-02-25T01:16:45Z")
I’m a bit surprised he did veto it. Obama has never particularly cared for being loyal to his base or punishing his opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879/80 "2015-02-25T04:04:07Z")
I found that book that I read a little while ago - [this is the reason that Pres. Obama is vetoing Keystone.](http://www.billmckibben.com/oilandhoney.html) (That’s my belief, anyway.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-obama-dare-to-veto-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/704879.md?page=3)