# Will Oprah need to pay more taxes under Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790 "2008-04-03T14:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/21 "2008-04-03T18:03:12Z")
[QUOTE=Dangerosa] You are missing the word fair. [/quote] I don’t miss it at all. I think it’s a nebulous, meaningless concept. > [@](#): > > Warren Buffet may think his tax burden is unfairly low compared to the middle class, but he may also think its unfair of him to donate money to the U.S. Treasury if Dick Cheney gets to sit on his wealth and therefore want to legislate a more fair distribution. He may believe (I’d call and ask him but he stopped taking my calls) that fair doesn’t mean “I pay more” but means “everyone like me pays more.” I think it is fundamentally flawed to think that you can judge what is a “fair” or “correct” amount of money for others to have. You can only judge your situation. If Buffet thinks he isn’t paying enough in taxes, let him voluntarily give the government more. But for him to think that someone else should be forced to give his money to the government because Buffet thinks it is “unfair” that other person has too much is a ridiculous notion in my view. It’s an illegitimate use of government power to compel people to give up something just because you don’t like that they have it. And, frankly, his view that it’s “unfair” that people like him are taxed too little is undercut by his unwillingness to do what he can to make the situation more “fair” by giving up his money. His wealth is the only wealth he can directly control. He should live up to his principles. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/22 "2008-04-03T18:04:58Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] I will only support Obama’s secret plan for a special lower tax rate to be paid by wealthy African Americans if it is called “blaxes”. [/QUOTE] Cosign. I also think he should paint the White House black. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/23 "2008-04-03T18:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The government is spending the money regardless. Some people just want to shirk their fair share of the burden. [/quote] Since the rich pay a hugely disproportionate share of the burden and consumer fewer government services than the poor, I think your notion of what is “fair” is pretty skewed. > [@](#): > > Rich conservatives are like people who order the lobster at the restaurant but then always make sure they’re in the bathroom when the check comes. Your metaphor is a little off. To reflect the reality, the rich are the ones paying the check for them and for half the restaurant. The lower classes are the ones who are eating a huge amount of food and then sticking the rich with the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/24 "2008-04-03T18:08:00Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] I don’t miss it at all. I think it’s a nebulous, meaningless concept. I think it is fundamentally flawed to think that you can judge what is a “fair” or “correct” amount of money for others to have. [/quote] I’m judging what constututes a fair share of a tax burden, not what “people should have,” but what they should _pay_. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/25 "2008-04-03T18:11:36Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] Ok, then if I may broaden my question. Friends of Bush and Cheney profited under their regime. How could Oprah profit under Obama above and beyond the other candidates? [/QUOTE] She may sleep better knowing that a large portion of the presumably huge amount of taxes she is paying is not going to support the pointless war in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/26 "2008-04-03T18:11:54Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Since the rich pay a hugely disproportionate share of the burden and consumer fewer government services than the poor, I think your notion of what is “fair” is pretty skewed. [/quote] This is complete baloney, no matter how often it gets repeated by conservatives. 10% of the people have 90% of the wealth. Corporations,especially, are undertaxed. > [@](#): > > Your metaphor is a little off. To reflect the reality, the rich are the ones paying the check for them and for half the restaurant. The lower classes are the ones who are eating a huge amount of food and then sticking the rich with the bill. This is baloney as well. We are racking up literally trillions of doallrs in debt in Iraq right now, purely for the benfit of a few rich corporations. Why should I pay the bill for Halliburton’s war? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/27 "2008-04-03T18:13:36Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m judging what constututes a fair share of a tax burden, not what “people should have,” but what they should _pay_. [/QUOTE] Well, what _should_ they pay? If I made 10 million dollars this year, and I was taxed at a 50% rate, is that enough? Is it ok for me to take home 5 million if I’m paying 5 million? What if I made 100 million? Then is the 50% rate ok, or should it be higher? Or is the bottom line that I should have to pay until my take home comes down to what everyone else’s is? I think this is the fundamental problem in figuring out what’s “fair” or reasonable for people to pay. The rich pay a huge chunk of the taxes as it is. At what point does it become more than they should have to pay? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/28 "2008-04-03T18:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] And, frankly, his view that it’s “unfair” that people like him are taxed too little is undercut by his unwillingness to do what he can to make the situation more “fair” by giving up his money. His wealth is the only wealth he can directly control. He should live up to his principles. [/QUOTE] Certainly you could agree that there are things the government should support with taxes? If so, then we’re only arguing about degrees. If you don’t, you’re a libertarian anarchist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/29 "2008-04-03T18:19:52Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Well, what _should_ they pay? If I made 10 million dollars this year, and I was taxed at a 50% rate, is that enough? Is it ok for me to take home 5 million if I’m paying 5 million? What if I made 100 million? Then is the 50% rate ok, or should it be higher? Or is the bottom line that I should have to pay until my take home comes down to what everyone else’s is? I think this is the fundamental problem in figuring out what’s “fair” or reasonable for people to pay. The rich pay a huge chunk of the taxes as it is. At what point does it become more than they should have to pay? [/QUOTE] How about if they just pay for their own wars? I’d settle for that. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/30 "2008-04-03T18:22:54Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This is complete baloney, no matter how often it gets repeated by conservatives. 10% of the people have 90% of the wealth. Corporations,especially, are undertaxed. [/quote] It’s repeated by conservatives because it is the truth: [quote] According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes. The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and the top 10 percent pay 65 percent. The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes. The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000. [quote] Those cites are from [here](http://taxesandgrowth.ncpa.org/news/do-the-rich-and-businesses-pay-their-fair-share). Yes, it is a conservative group. But it gets its info from the IRS, so if you don’t like it show me some numbers to dispute it. > [@](#): > > This is baloney as well. We are racking up literally trillions of doallrs in debt in Iraq right now, purely for the benfit of a few rich corporations. Why should I pay the bill for Halliburton’s war? You shouldn’t. You also shouldn’t pay for the variety of programs that go to subsidize the middle class or those who don’t work. The fact is, though, most rich people don’t use that much in government services. Most poor people do. The rich pay a hugely disproportionate share in taxes. The poor don’t pay any taxes. > [@](#): > > I’m judging what constututes a fair share of a tax burden, not what “people should have,” but what they should pay. OK, how do you determine this? By what benefits they get from the government? If so, the poor should pay a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/31 "2008-04-03T18:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Certainly you could agree that there are things the government should support with taxes? If so, then we’re only arguing about degrees. [/quote] Yes, I see the necessity of taxes. I think they are a necessary evil. But all too often people look upon taxes as something good. **Diogenes** clearly wants to use them to punish people he thinks have too much income. Others want to use them to pay for useless programs that do nothing to help people. Yes, we are arguing over degrees, but they are pretty important degrees. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/32 "2008-04-03T18:30:17Z")
It could be argued and is once in a while that even the self-made rich rely on government services to the people who support their wealth as employees and tenants (for example), and so therefore participate in the benefits of government, as individuals, at a much greater rate than the average poor good-for-nothing welfare slob. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/33 "2008-04-03T18:33:15Z")
Why am I left with the feeling that the OP thinks that Obama would run the country in the way depicted in the Dave Chappelle skit, Black Bush? [http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/blackbush03-p1.php](http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/blackbush03-p1.php) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/34 "2008-04-03T18:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Yes, I see the necessity of taxes. I think they are a necessary evil. But all too often people look upon taxes as something good. **Diogenes** clearly wants to use them to punish people he thinks have too much income. [/quote] No, I want them to pay their fair share for the benefits they reap. Without the government, they couldn’t become rich in the first place. > [@](#): > > Others want to use them to pay for useless programs that do nothing to help people. Like the occupation of Iraq, for instance? Or Abstinence Only education programs? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/35 "2008-04-03T18:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Why am I left with the feeling that the OP thinks that Obama would run the country in the way depicted in the Dave Chappelle skit, Black Bush? [http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/blackbush03-p1.php](http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/blackbush03-p1.php) [/QUOTE] “Hope, bitches!” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/36 "2008-04-03T18:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] It could be argued and is once in a while that even the self-made rich rely on government services to the people who support their wealth as employees and tenants (for example), and so therefore participate in the benefits of government, as individuals, at a much greater rate than the average poor good-for-nothing welfare slob. [/QUOTE] Perhaps it’s not true as a percentage of their income, but as an absolute measure of their income it’s definitely true, as they have more property for the police to protect, more travel for the government to help manage, and more legal transactions for the government to guarantee. Which is not to say it’s impossible for these things to happen without government but they would be more expensive and less economically efficient. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/37 "2008-04-03T19:00:57Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] The part I’m having difficulty with is that people are taking the OP seriously enough to even respond to it. [/QUOTE] Why did it take 5 posts for this to be posted? Kudos, **Little Nemo.** ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/38 "2008-04-03T19:17:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How about if they just pay for their own wars? I’d settle for that. [/QUOTE] You may be onto something…maybe that’s how we should run the government. Each person checks off on their taxes where they want the money to go, and you have to distribute that amount to each. Whatever doesn’t get funded goes. I likee! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/39 "2008-04-03T19:28:04Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] You may be onto something…maybe that’s how we should run the government. Each person checks off on their taxes where they want the money to go, and you have to distribute that amount to each. Whatever doesn’t get funded goes. I likee! [/QUOTE] The point is that it’s hypocritical for anyone to demand a program (or a war), that they aren’t willing to pay for. Money spent on social programs is a pittance compared to what gets spent in one month in Iraq. Somebody is going to have to pay that debt. The poor can’t pay it and neither can the working class. They haven’t even benefited from it. It;s oil companies and other corporation _taking_ from the American people and then crying poor mouth when asked to settle their debts. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790/40 "2008-04-03T19:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] I will only support Obama’s secret plan for a special lower tax rate to be paid by wealthy African Americans if it is called “blaxes”. [/QUOTE] Okay, admit it, the OP is a sock you set up entirely to pull this line off. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-oprah-need-to-pay-more-taxes-under-obama/443790.md?page=3)