# Will Palin still trust God if they lose? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269 "2008-10-23T23:01:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/41 "2008-10-25T22:22:42Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Faith is (or should be) an incredibly private matter, so who can really tell? Remember when Republicans use to know this? Papa Bush did and even the John McCain of 8 years ago knew it very well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/42 "2008-10-26T02:34:52Z")
> [@](#): > > The one thing I don’t expect anyone of that mind-set to conclude (and where I was being a bit facetious in my question) is that Obama won because he is actually the candidate God prefers and considers “the right thing for America”, although her comments imply that logic. > [@](#): > > She did not imply that logic. You inferred that logic. If you can call it logic. Palin said _“I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”_ I don’t think any inferrence is needed. She clearly said that God will decide who gets elected and that result will be the right thing for America. The only question is whether she will still hold this belief if the election produces a result she isn’t expecting. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/43 "2008-10-26T02:42:38Z")
Well, I accidentally bumped into a glurgy religious homeschooling blog the other day with a big pic of McCain/Palin on it and the caption ‘What A Godsend’! “They” must know something “we” don’t. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/44 "2008-10-26T02:47:55Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > She did not imply that logic. You inferred that logic. If you can call it logic. She most certainly did imply that conclusion. If she’s saying that the results will be God’s will, then then it’s a necessary implication that an Obama win would be God’s will. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/45 "2008-10-26T02:50:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She most certainly did imply that conclusion. If she’s saying that the results will be God’s will, then then it’s a necessary implication that an Obama win would be God’s will. Dio, most Christians I know would say that God’s will can be frustrated in the short term. That possibility is a necessary consequence of believing in sin. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/46 "2008-10-26T03:07:45Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Dio, most Christians I know would say that God’s will can be frustrated in the short term. That possibility is a necessary consequence of believing in sin. That’s complete logical gibberish, of course, but also inconsequential in _this_ case, because Palin assured us that God will definitely decide the outcome of this election. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/47 "2008-10-26T03:12:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s complete logical gibberish, of course, but also inconsequential in _this_ case, because Palin assured us that God will definitely decide the outcome of this election. Governor Palin is an idiot, so I won’t use her as an example, but I don’t think a Christian believing God’s will can be frustrated in the short term is logical gibberish. God can retain omnipotence while nevertheless allowing free will; it is a self-limitation. By the act of creating beings with free will, God is, by definition, deciding to permit their choices to be outside the control exercised over, say, gravitation. Why I’m arguing the Christian case I don’t know, as I’m at best an agnostic and practically speaking don’t believe in Jehovah’s existence at all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/48 "2008-10-26T03:42:14Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Governor Palin is an idiot, so I won’t use her as an example, but I don’t think a Christian believing God’s will can be frustrated in the short term is logical gibberish. God can retain omnipotence while nevertheless allowing free will; it is a self-limitation. By the act of creating beings with free will, God is, by definition, deciding to permit their choices to be outside the control exercised over, say, gravitation. > > Why I’m arguing the Christian case I don’t know, as I’m at best an agnostic and practically speaking don’t believe in Jehovah’s existence at all. This is a much longer argument which has ben rehashed here before. Suffice it to say that human free will is logically incompatible an omnimax god. It’s a different thread, though. Of course, free will, in itself, is a logically impossible and incoherent concept, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/49 "2008-10-26T03:52:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is a much longer argument which has ben rehashed here before. Suffice it to say that human free will is logically incompatible an omnimax god. It’s a different thread, though. > > Of course, free will, in itself, is a logically impossible and incoherent concept, regardless. But we can agree that Governor Palin’s a twit, at least, no? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/50 "2008-10-26T04:00:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > But we can agree that Governor Palin’s a twit, at least, no? 🆒 Well, yeah… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/51 "2008-10-26T07:08:01Z")
I see this thread has reached the “Kumbayah” stage. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/52 "2008-10-26T19:36:21Z")
Where’s a rotten tomato when you need to hurl one? ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/53 "2008-10-26T19:47:42Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > I assure you, it was a serious question, though asked a bit tongue in cheek, and I appreciate all the input, both serious and silly. > I’ve no doubt her faith will not be seriously challenged by a loss, but I suppose my point was more along the lines of: > > for her and those who believe as she does (including her audience for that interview) how will they rationalize an Obama win within their belief system and in light of the fact that they obviously believe McCain/Palin to be the “Godly” ticket. > > The “America is being punished” angle is one I suspect many will adopt. Or, McCain is too secular/moderate in his views on certain key issues for God to “endorse” him, even with Palin bringing the ticket closer to “right with God”. > > The one thing I don’t expect anyone of that mind-set to conclude (and where I was being a bit facetious in my question) is that Obama won because he is actually the candidate God prefers and considers “the right thing for America”, although her comments imply that logic. > > I realize that logic as those outside of that belief system would term it doesn’t enter into this. > > And that if McCain wins, they will have no problem declaring it proof that he is the annointed one and installed by God. > > Those wacky fundamentalists…gotta love 'em:D Excuse me for picking a bone for starters. The “America is being punished” notion carries the implicit idea that _God_ is doing the punishing. That being the case, it would be consistant with the notion that Obama won because he was God’s preferred candidate (prefered for his punishment value). Some folks will decide that, gosh, Obama’s election must have been God’s will after all, and move on. Some folks will see it as yet another sign that Armageddon is right around the corner, then move on to looking for the next omen. Many folks will do what most of us do when we’re wrong about something: quietly and conveniently forget we made the mistake, and move on. Yes, I spelled “preferred” two different ways. _You_ look it up; I’m tired. ---
**Author:** ![Cider\_Depot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Cider\_Depot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cider_Depot)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269/54 "2008-10-28T03:09:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > JOHN STEWART: Did Reverend Arnold Conrad just call God a pussy?! Nitpick: T’was Colbert, not Stewart [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-palin-still-trust-god-if-they-lose/469269.md?page=2)