# Will PLug-in Hybrids Overwhelm the Grid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 14, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449 "2008-07-14T16:19:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/21 "2008-07-15T05:02:20Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Would the widespread, sudden, use of plug-ins overload the electrical system? [/QUOTE] According to the [DOE](http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/12/doe_study_offpe.html) - no, not unless by “widespread” you mean more than 84%… > [@](#): > > A new study for the US Department of Energy finds that off-peak electricity production and transmission capacity could power 84% of the country’s 220 million vehicles if they were plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). …in the Midwest and East, there is sufficient off-peak generation, transmission and distribution capacity to provide for all of today’s vehicles if they ran on batteries. > > However, in the West, and specifically the Pacific Northwest, there is limited extra electricity because of the large amount of hydroelectric generation that is already heavily utilized, and increasing electricity from hydroelectric plants is difficult. That’s today’s grid. Add in some wind here and there (stronger at night, and a better resource specifically where the grid currently is weakest) and you get much higher than 84%. As far as power outages … a pure BEV may be in trouble or not. Most proposed BEV have an over one hundred mile range and should handle most commuters needs even skipping a night of charge. And of course it has been pointed out that the transportation infrastructure will not suddenly all turn-over and is unlikely to turn completely electric even if it becomes a dominant option. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/22 "2008-07-15T13:16:52Z")
Does a car pull more energy from the grid than A/C? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/23 "2008-07-15T14:11:19Z")
[QUOTE=SmackFu] Does a car pull more energy from the grid than A/C? [/QUOTE] No, at least not compared to a whole-house AC. All the current plug-ins are designed to be recharged from a standard outlet. Even if this was a 20A outlet, it’s at 120v, and ACs are powered off of 30A (or greater) 240V circuits. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/24 "2008-07-15T15:37:48Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] That’s what the gasoline is for. Remember, these are still hybrids we’re talking about, not pure-electric vehicles. Presumably, such storms are rare enough, and the people who are always on-call few enough, that you’d still see a significant decrease in fuel consumption. [/QUOTE] I thought we were talking about pure electric vehicles. I know of no hybrid car on the market today that needs to be plugged in. The electric motor gets recharged when the gas motor is running. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/25 "2008-07-15T15:43:09Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] I thought we were talking about pure electric vehicles. I know of no hybrid car on the market today that needs to be plugged in. The electric motor gets recharged when the gas motor is running. [/QUOTE] I think this tread is discussing series hybrids, like the mythical Chevy Volt. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/26 "2008-07-15T16:54:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I know of no hybrid car on the market today that needs to be plugged in. Not that _needs_ to be plugged in, but they’re working on some now that _can_ be plugged in. So for short trips (like most commutes), you might not need to burn any gasoline at all. If you go outside the plug-in range, or don’t get a chance to recharge at the outlet, the gas engine still kicks in, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/27 "2008-07-15T19:48:49Z")
[QUOTE=retusaf99] Still, that’s not the norm in the US or even Europe that I’m aware of. (Scandanavia , probably, possibly? My ignorance is showing. :o ) [/QUOTE] It seems to be becoming the norm, for new air conditioner installations. The electric utility is pushing it hard. And even for already installed AC, they are pushing retro-fits. That’s how mine was done. I just approved it, and someone from the electric company came out and installed a control box on my AC cutoff box. I wasn’t even home at the time, and it was all done at no cost to me. But no doubt, there are a lot of ACs out there without this. It will probably take years before they are all converted. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/28 "2008-07-25T01:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] When the Al Gore wired the nation for the (dial-up) internet, there were some problems. “The System” was designed to have a bunch of people on the phone 24/7. Well, it takes a long while to recharge an electric car. Would the widespread, sudden, use of plug-ins overload the electrical system? [/QUOTE] Looks like the answer is [No.](http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/07/23/electriccars.grid.ap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/29 "2008-07-25T02:24:34Z")
Not exactly. What the article says is that the electric industry thinks the rollout of electric vehicles will be so slow and gradual that it will be able to cope. Sort of the exact opposite of “widespread, sudden, use.” And the coping depends on “good planning,” something as likely as pigs flying. > [@](#): > > Since most electric cars will likely be charged during off-peak electric use times, utilities should have no problem generating enough electricity. But since people with the means to buy electric cars likely will live in the same areas, utilities worry about stress on their distribution systems, Ornelas said. > > That means consumers will face a lot of choices about when and where they charge up their cars and how much they want to pay for the electricity. > > … > > Duvall said utilities still have to be wary that high gasoline prices could push sales of rechargeable electric vehicles well into the millions by 2020, because that could stress the system. In other words, the whole article is an exercise in wishful thinking and PR for the masses. Some proof. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/30 "2008-07-25T02:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Not exactly. What the article says is that the electric industry thinks the rollout of electric vehicles will be so slow and gradual that it will be able to cope. Sort of the exact opposite of “widespread, sudden, use.” And the coping depends on “good planning,” something as likely as pigs flying. In other words, the whole article is an exercise in wishful thinking and PR for the masses. Some proof. [/QUOTE] You think that everyone is going to buy plug-is the first year? Now who’s doing the wishful thinking? What do you think is the best-case number of plug-ins that could be sold in the first decade? I’d bet less than 2 Million - which would be around 20% of new car purchases. There’s not going to be any “widespread, sudden, use.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/31 "2008-07-25T03:16:19Z")
[QUOTE=beowulff] There’s not going to be any “widespread, sudden, use.” [/QUOTE] Of course not. But that’s the way you wrote your answer. (Read it again.) However, if you thought that silly CNN article had any answers whatsoever, you may want to brush up on your reading skills. That piece filled space but had the content equivalent of industrial-grade vacuum. “Something may happen in the future, unless the opposite occurs.” Why even bother quoting it? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/32 "2008-07-25T03:17:33Z")
[QUOTE=beowulff] You think that everyone is going to buy plug-is the first year? Now who’s doing the wishful thinking? [/quote] The utilities around here would be overwhelmed if a few percent bought one the first year. Tiny co-ops that have multiple blackouts a year due entirely to predictable weather patterns (it storms in the summer and freezes in the winter) aren’t the kinds of people I want influencing my travel options. (And no, there will be no mass transit unless we all hitch a ride on flying pigs.) ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449/33 "2008-07-25T03:43:15Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Of course not. But that’s the way you wrote your answer. (Read it again.) However, if you thought that silly CNN article had any answers whatsoever, you may want to brush up on your reading skills. That piece filled space but had the content equivalent of industrial-grade vacuum. “Something may happen in the future, unless the opposite occurs.” Why even bother quoting it? [/QUOTE] Well, it’s better than all of the “informed” speculation we’ve had up to this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-plug-in-hybrids-overwhelm-the-grid/456449.md?page=1)