# Will President Pence pardon Donald Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340 "2017-05-11T11:38:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/41 "2017-05-12T16:36:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The GOP might be able to mitigate the damage of Pence pardoning Trump by not having Pence run for president in 2020, nominating an anti-Trump Republican instead. Ford was hurt by the pardon because he was the candidate in 1976. Ford wasn’t all that popular in the GOP in 76, and now, just like then, it’s tough not to run your incumbent. Nixon was incredibly unpopular following Watergate. Ford tried to mitigate the pardon fallout by saying Nixon was admitting guilt by accepting the pardon. That didn’t go over too well, a lot of people on both sides thought criminal charges should be pursued, if only to gain some closure. If Trump ends up in the same situation there may still be a strong vocal group that believes it’s a fake impeachment by a fake senate based on fake news and Pence won’t suffer that much for pardoning him. I don’t think there’s much chance Pence would be re-elected anyway assuming the Democrats can field a credible opponent, which unfortunately is not any kind of guarantee. All in all, Trump may not have any leverage with Pence to make a deal on the pardon before hand. It’s likely to depend on the severity of the charges and the level of evidence. If there is actual collusion directly tied to Trump then Pence may abandon him to maintain his own reputation. I think any impeachment is not likely to be based on such solid cause and that leaves Pence plenty of room to negotiate with the party and pardon Trump to end the matter. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/42 "2017-05-12T19:37:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t know what to root for. On one hand, it would be tremendously gratifying to see Cheeto die in solitary in a maximum security prison along with the rest of his family. On the other hand, if he got a pardon that would be as damaging to Republicans as Ford’s pardon of Nixon. Ford’s pardon of Nixon cost them just four years in the White House and paved the way for Ronald Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/43 "2017-05-13T01:07:03Z")
Will President Pence pardon Trump? You mean posthumously? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/44 "2017-05-13T19:16:00Z")
No, he would not. Trump is not likely to live for even ten years if he was impeached tomorrow. Nixon had a lifetime of service to the Republican Party and won a landslide election in 1972. Trump lost the popular vote and squeaked an electoral college win with less than the attendance at a major college football game. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/45 "2017-05-13T19:28:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Ford’s pardon of Nixon cost them just four years in the White House and paved the way for Ronald Reagan. Pffft. It most certainly did not “pave the way for Ronald Reagan”. It just didn’t damage the Republican party past the next presidential. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/46 "2017-05-13T19:31:53Z")
I’m starting to wonder if Pence maybe deepthroating; providing the leaks occurring daily, and gathering enough for the final smoking gun to end the charade. Largely setting Trump up to be his own fall-guy, and as such I don’t expect a pardon as much as a kick in the guts. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/47 "2017-05-13T19:53:26Z")
No, President Hatch will not pardon Trump, Pence, or Ryan. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/48 "2017-05-15T21:54:50Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > No, President Hatch will not pardon Trump, Pence, or Ryan. One thing about Hatch is that it’s practically a certainty he wouldn’t run for POTUS in 2020 – he’s 83 years old now, right? Both Pence and Ryan are young enough that when standing there with a hand on the Bible, they’d be already thinking about their 2020 campaign. How long does Trump have to survive as POTUS before his successor could run in 2024 (assuming of course that he was reelected in 2020)? I have a vague recollection from the Ford presidency that if the term you fill is less than half done when you are sworn in, it counts as a full term for the “no more than 2 terms” business, but if less than that, it doesn’t count as a term. Am I right? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/49 "2017-05-15T22:02:29Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Agnew was removed first. I believe Agnew’s removal was for something else and he had nothing to do with Watergate. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/50 "2017-05-15T22:36:04Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > How long does Trump have to survive as POTUS before his successor could run in 2024 (assuming of course that he was reelected in 2020)? I have a vague recollection from the Ford presidency that if the term you fill is less than half done when you are sworn in, it counts as a full term for the “no more than 2 terms” business, but if less than that, it doesn’t count as a term. Am I right? Yes. [The 22nd Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text) says > [@](#): > > no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. I’m not sure _exactly_ when the two-year clock starts, but to put a round date on it, lets say that if Pence waited to take over until Feb 1, 2018, he could potentially serve as President until 1/20/2029 (if I’m doing the math right). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/51 "2017-05-16T11:14:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes. [The 22nd Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text) says > > I’m not sure _exactly_ when the two-year clock starts, but to put a round date on it, lets say that if Pence waited to take over until Feb 1, 2018, he could potentially serve as President until 1/20/2029 (if I’m doing the math right). That date is quite round. The way I read it, if Pence is sworn in on 1/21/19, he could serve until 1/20/29. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/52 "2017-05-17T19:20:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That date is quite round. The way I read it, if Pence is sworn in on 1/21/19, he could serve until 1/20/29. It’s not when you’re “sworn in”; it’s when you “become President.” Two different things. Pence would become President the moment the Senate trial ended in a conviction, regardless of when he actually takes the oath of office. The reason the oath is important is, even though someone is President, he can’t, for lack of a better way of putting it, “do anything Presidential” until after he takes the oath. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/53 "2017-05-20T23:25:50Z")
Curiously, Nixon was likely not provably guilty of anything. Well, maybe obstruction. But it would have been very difficult to prove that even knew about the burglary beforehand. What did him in was the coverup. Anyway, what he did was irritate the party to the point they were about to impeach him. And even if they had, it is not obvious he would have been convicted. This is different; I do believe T is guilty of serious criminal activity, possibly treason. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/54 "2017-05-21T21:48:23Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > I don’t think Trump has an ounce of loyalty to Pence and wouldn’t hesitate to throw him under the bus at the slightest hope that it would keep him in the Oval Office for another month or two. > > So if (a) Pence isn’t complicit in the Russia business–and I’m betting he will be involved in at least an obstruction of justice rap if this all goes south–and (b) he survives Trump feeding him to the wolves of the press and partisans, then Pence won’t have a single reason to pardon Trump. … I agree that emotionally, Pence will feel no urges to pardon Trump. It’s not only for the reasons you cite, but because (I believe) Pence’s attitude toward Trump is virtually identical to the fundamentalist Christian attitude toward Israelis: _ **complete and total and unquestioning support** _-----right up until the moment the Israelis are flung into Hell. To be specific, the fundamentalist belief is that Christ can’t return unless Jews inhabit the land of Israel (and the Jerusalem Temple). If they’re there, Christ can return, in order to fight the Anti-Christ–and in the process of this Armageddon, the non-Christians (Israelis among them) will be flung into the pit and suffer eternal hell-fire, etc. While the fundamentalist Christians smugly enjoy their eternity in heaven, of course. So this is how Pence is able to keep up the “gaze reverently at Trump” effort without a single failure. (If he once lapsed into a look of dislike or contempt, Trump would see it when reviewing photos and footage.) Pence looks at Trump and sees the Hand of God at work—but contrary to what Trump probably believes, Pence’s worshipful attention signals not one particle of respect for Trump or sentiment for Trump or any possible mercy for Trump that would result in a pardon. No: once Trump has served his Godly purpose (getting Pence into the Oval Office), Trump can be flung into that pit of hell-fire. (Psychologically, Pence must be building up a mountain of resentment at the way he’s had to kiss Trump’s butt and defend Trump’s lies and smile, smile, smile. Psychologically, Pence is probably ready to smile, smile, smile while Trump is frog-marched into custody.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/55 "2017-05-22T02:55:55Z")
Impeachment is just the way that he would be removed from office. He’d still have to be tried for any actual crimes he may have committed, probably in Federal court. > [@](#): > > Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law. > > ARTICLE I, SECTION 3, CLAUSE 7 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/56 "2017-05-22T03:10:01Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > To be specific, the fundamentalist belief is that Christ can’t return unless Jews inhabit the land of Israel (and the Jerusalem Temple). If they’re there, Christ can return, in order to fight the Anti-Christ–and in the process of this Armageddon, the non-Christians (Israelis among them) will be flung into the pit and suffer eternal hell-fire, etc. While the fundamentalist Christians smugly enjoy their eternity in heaven, of course. I could have sworn I’ve pointed this out before. They don’t believe the Israelis will be flung into the Lake of Fire. They believe they will see Jesus’s return and herald him as their long-awaited Messiah, turning them into Christians. There are plenty who have decided helping out the evil Trump is okay as long as they get what they want, I agree. I think Pence is among them. But I think what he wants is political power, like most politicians. He wants to be President, so I think he would go along with getting rid of Trump. Now, will he pardon? Probably. I don’t think the “for the country” argument is very strong, but the “for the party” argument is. And Pence, like most of the Religious Right, will put Party over Country and over his God. Only if Republicans actually turn on Trump will he be able to not pardon him. Or if Trump dies or something. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/57 "2017-05-22T03:31:28Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Did Ford pardon Nixon? Is the Pope Catholic? > > Yes, he will. > > In the name of his God. …and like all good Christians who do bad things, it’ll be behind closed doors where he thinks his God can’t hear him… and near the end of his term. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340/58 "2017-05-22T19:40:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I could have sworn I’ve pointed this out before. They don’t believe the Israelis will be flung into the Lake of Fire. They believe they will see Jesus’s return and herald him as their long-awaited Messiah, turning them into Christians. > … It really depends on what source you’re looking at. The version you cite is the ‘nicer’ one, in which Israelis don’t end up burning in hell (but do get converted to Christianity, which might not seem all that ‘nice’ to many). Dispensationalism and/or Christian Zionism are not monolithic. My point was that many (including, perhaps, Pence), while smiling on Israelis and working for the strength and vitality of the nation of Israel, may be enjoying mental images that are not quite so friendly, as in this account of the belief system: > [@](#): > > Israel plays a central role in the dispensationalist view of the end of the world. The establishment of Israel in 1948 was seen as a milestone to many dispensationalists on the path toward Jesus’ return. In their minds, now that the Jews again had regained their homeland, all Jews were able to return to Israel, just as had been prophesied in the Bible. As described in the Book of Revelation, there is an epic battle that will take place in Israel after it is reestablished — Armageddon — in which it is prophesied that good will finally triumph over evil. However, in the process, two-thirds of the Jews in Israel die and the other third are converted to Christianity. [Christian Zionism](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/christian-zionism) In any case, fundie Christians who advocate for Israel are likely to be complacently contemplating a future for Israelis in which the Israelis’ autonomy is abruptly terminated. It’s that sort of mental attitude that I’m guessing Pence has toward Trump: a public support that is powered by religious fervor, underpinned by expectations that God’s future plans for Trump may not be calculated to please Trump himself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-president-pence-pardon-donald-trump/786340.md?page=2)