# Will Pterry ever give us any gay Discworld characters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584 "2006-01-25T18:59:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/21 "2006-01-25T23:54:22Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > What I meant was that, while there do turn out to be a couple of lesbian characters in _Monstrous Regiment_, I considered it too minor a point to be called a subtext. Reasonable enough to me, though of course with most literary criticim of the last 40 years a ‘subtext’ can be based on anything at all, even things that that the writer expressly states don’t exist. It certainly doesn’t need to be a major point. Jeez, if we can have people discussing the homosexual subtext of LoTR, which doesn’t exist at all, we can certainly discuss the Lesbian subtext or MR, which at least does exist albeit incidentally. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/22 "2006-01-25T23:55:15Z")
The description in _Jingo_ suns something like, “rowed by young, muscular, and not very dressed men”. I think he might be bi, because in _The Art Of The Discworld_ it’s definitely suggested that he was involved with Nanny Ogg. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/23 "2006-01-26T00:03:22Z")
> [@Lissla Lissar](#): > > The description in _Jingo_ suns something like, “rowed by young, muscular, and not very dressed men”. I think he might be bi, because in _The Art Of The Discworld_ it’s definitely suggested that he was involved with Nanny Ogg. Proves nothing. If Liberace lived on the Discworld, at some point he would have been involved with Nanny Ogg. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/24 "2006-01-26T00:03:53Z")
I think any young man, whatever his inclinations, would have to have had a great deal of fortitude to escape Nanny Ogg, back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/25 "2006-01-26T00:05:30Z")
> [@Monstrous Regiment](#): > > Blouse stared at her. “You’re sure?” > “Yes, sir. I am of the female persuasion. I check every day, sir.” > “And Private Halter?” > “Yes, sir.” > “_And_ Lofty?” > “Oh, yes, sir. Both of them, sir. Don’t go there, sir.” This, in my mind, is the most obvious reference to the lesbian relationship. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/26 "2006-01-26T21:09:25Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > As with so much of Pratchett’s characterisation it simply wans;t made into a major issue. They characters are gay, now back to the story. Which is as it should be, IMO. 🙂 In a related vein, I continue to respect Pratchett’s polite sensibilities when it comes to discussing sexual matters in his novels – e.g., for the most part it’s something that happens “off-scene”, since it’s a private matter. The only time I can recall an explicit sexual encounter in any of the DW novels was from _Men-At-Arms,_ where Angua and Carrot made the Disc move [without even bothering to cancel the bread and newspapers.](http://www.electric-escape.net/pratchett/Men-At-Arms#239)😉 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/27 "2006-01-26T21:13:30Z")
Well, it moved for Carrot. Nothing was mentioned of Angua doing any howling. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/28 "2006-01-27T00:13:34Z")
Yep, Lofty and Tonker are most definitely a couple. It’s made pretty obvious in the following passage, as well as the one\*\* GuanoLad\*\* quoted: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Monstrous Regiment** > \*“Tonker?” said Polly. > “Oh, yes. Hadn’t you spotted her? She went mad when the man charged at Lofty”… > > “But Lofty and Tonker…” Polly began, running to keep up. “I mean the way they act, they…I thought she was his girl…but I thought Tonker…I mean, I know Lofty is a gi–” > > Even in the dark, Maladict’s teeth gleamed as he smiled. “The world’s uncertainly unfolding itself for you, eh? Every, something new.”\* (Is it a sign of my irrevocable geekiness that this the thread that compelled by to renew my membership?) ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/29 "2006-01-27T00:18:32Z")
Dwarves all look alike except the women don’t have beards, that is to say, not much of a beard. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/30 "2006-01-27T00:37:06Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Dwarves all look alike except the women don’t have beards, that is to say, not much of a beard. Female dwarves have perfectly good beards, and are quite proud of them, as any dwarf would be, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/31 "2006-01-27T02:39:49Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Dwarves all look alike except the women don’t have beards, that is to say, not much of a beard. NANNY OGG: Look, I’m old enough to be your mother. CASANUNDA: I don’t think so. My mother’s 120 years old. And she’s got a better beard than you. ---
**Author:** ![anoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@anoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anoia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/32 "2012-09-29T17:47:57Z")
Pepe, a male character in “Unseen Academicals”, is a flamboyant personality who works in the fashion industry. His apparent lover is Madame Sharn, owner of the dwarf fashion house Shatta. The question is, since both male and female dwarves have beards, is Madame Sharn actually physically female, or a physically male dwarf being campy? There is a good bit of sexuality in Discworld, it’s simply more subtle than that found in many other authors’ works. ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/33 "2012-09-29T18:35:07Z")
Also, from the same book, Professor Bengo Macarona, who was visiting staff at UU from Genua because of ugliness from a divorce proceeding by an angry wife. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/34 "2012-09-29T20:18:53Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > Also, from the same book, Professor Bengo Macarona, who was visiting staff at UU from Genua because of ugliness from a divorce proceeding by an angry wife. That was a great moment for Ridcully: > [@](#): > > A lot of that sort of thing about, apparently," said Ridcully. “People make such a fuss. Anyway, in my opinion there’s not enough love in the world. Besides, if you didn’t like the company of men you wouldn’t come here in the first place. I say! Well done, that man!” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/35 "2012-09-30T06:49:27Z")
nitpick: Pterry uses the plural form _dwarfs_, not _dwarves_ which is - or started out as - a Tolkienism since the Prof was keen to distinguish the _Naugrim_ from the kind of creatures Snow White set up house with. As far as I’ve noticed, Mr Slant is far too dry and dusty to be interested, and Reg Shoe is too prone to bits dropping off, so we’re not in a position to say what sort of sex life zombies have, if any. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/36 "2012-09-30T07:14:05Z")
Not a Disc novel, but in his recent novel with Stephen Baxter, _The Long Earth_, the police officer who befriended the protagonist when he was a young boy is explicitly described as a lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/37 "2012-09-30T10:41:19Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra; As far as I’ve noticed, Mr Slant is far too dry and dusty to be interested, and Reg Shoe is too prone to bits dropping off, so we’re not in a position to say what sort of sex life zombies have, if any.[/QUOTE] :p:p:p ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/38 "2012-09-30T11:29:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Terry Pratchett is known for exploring a lot of social and moral and philosophical issues in his Discworld novels. But he’s never done very much with sexuality or sex-related problems. > > In particular, Pterry has never given us an unambiguously gay or lesbian character. Do you think he ever will? If I might gently suggest, sexuality is minor compared with the much larger issues of equality and sociology. We in the late 20th and now 21st century occasionally think about sexual orientation but really its at best a side-bar to the worries of real life. Terry Pratchett is beyond clever but he can’t tackle every single side issue which ordinary humanity confronts. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/39 "2012-09-30T12:51:31Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > If I might gently suggest, sexuality is minor compared with the much larger issues of equality and sociology. We in the late 20th and now 21st century occasionally think about sexual orientation but really its at best a side-bar to the worries of real life. Issues of sexuality are “real life” to those who experience inequality as a result of them. That being said, unfortunately - unlike 6 years ago when this thread was first created - I doubt Pratchett will have very many more opportunities to create works that address any kind of issue, due to his progressing Alzheimer’s disease. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584/40 "2012-09-30T13:40:29Z")
I don’t think it’s really a Relevant Issue to Pterry. Nor should it be. Part of what makes the Discworld so refreshing is that it is usually free of the issues that are buggering up the real world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-pterry-ever-give-us-any-gay-discworld-characters/341584.md?page=3)