# Will Rap/Hip Hop ever go stale? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 8, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559 "2010-08-08T00:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/61 "2010-08-08T04:44:25Z")
Is it ok if the rapper also composes and produces the beats himself? With no sampling? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/62 "2010-08-08T04:52:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They all sound like rap. Duh. Some idiot chanting inanities over somebody else’s music. Oh, rap sounds like _rap_. Good work. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/63 "2010-08-08T04:54:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Is it ok if the rapper also composes and produces the beats himself? With no sampling? Like \*that \*happens. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/64 "2010-08-08T04:57:19Z")
What do you mean by a “beat?” Are you talking about just a percussion track or are you talking about actual music? The percussion tracks are done by machine. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/65 "2010-08-08T04:59:20Z")
If someone writes his own music, I respect that, even I don’t like the music. Yes, that takes talent and ability. If they steal somebody else’s work, I don’t respect that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/66 "2010-08-08T05:01:10Z")
But you know what rap is, and it doesn’t include any production of ‘actual’ music, to be clear. And so to the extent that anything linked to in this thread is rap, it doesn’t include, for instance, live backing on musical instruments. Because that would be music, not rap. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/67 "2010-08-08T05:01:30Z")
Actually, a “beat” in rap generally refers to the music as a whole- all the components of whatever that particular arrangement requires. I apologize for not being clear, this vernacular has been in use since before I was born, well into the early 80s, so I thought it was pretty prevelant. No, I don’t mean a drum machine (or an 808, or whatever you want it to be). I mean a rap artist that . . . let’s use language that isn’t normally associated with rap, but we will. If a rap artist _composes_ the music for his track completely originally, is that ok? So, there’s no sampling and the artist writes and produces every musical part of the track him or herself. Is that rap music? What if the artist has a producer the collaborate with, but again- everything is original to that grouping? **Edit:** Oops, you replied while I was replying. Ok. So, if the above take talent, would you not agree that your blanket statement that all rappers are talentless is a bit off base? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/68 "2010-08-08T05:08:36Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > But you know what rap is, and it doesn’t include any production of ‘actual’ music, to be clear. And so to the extent that anything linked to in this thread is rap, it doesn’t include, for instance, live backing on musical instruments. Because that would be music, not rap. If it contains live, unstolen music, then I would consider it music. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/69 "2010-08-08T05:18:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > > > But you know what rap is, and it doesn’t include any production of ‘actual’ music, to be clear. And so to the extent that anything linked to in this thread is rap, it doesn’t include, for instance, live backing on musical instruments. Because that would be music, not rap. > > If it contains **live** , unstolen music, then I would consider it music. Bolding mine. So. . . it can’t be a recording? Like, if I’m listening to a rap CD. . . that’s not music? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/70 "2010-08-08T05:19:03Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I was pretty excited to see that you had, **Hades**. I kind of liked the idea of repeatedly linking to her while the, er, stodgier elements kept on about what all rap is like. Do you know any other female MCs like her, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/71 "2010-08-08T05:19:26Z")
I, for one, only consider real music to be played on instruments carved from antique furniture, performed by midgets. Now let’s have 2 pages of a thread dedicated to my superior, intelligent and very well thought out opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/72 "2010-08-08T05:21:52Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Actually, a “beat” in rap generally refers to the music as a whole- all the components of whatever that particular arrangement requires. I apologize for not being clear, this vernacular has been in use since before I was born, well into the early 80s, so I thought it was pretty prevelant. I’ve occasionally heard the term used that way, but only for rap. It may have some utility as a shorthand recording term, but not so much for bands and instrumentalists. For people who actually play instruments, “beat” just refers to time. We use the word “riff” (short for refrain) to indicate a full, repeating musical signature. I figured you were probably using the rap definition, but I wasn’t sure. > [@](#): > > **Edit:** Oops, you replied while I was replying. Ok. So, if the above take talent, would you not agree that your blanket statement that all rappers are talentless is a bit off base? Well, I would still say that rapping itself requires no talent (ok, maybe some breathing skills and the ability to enunciate quickly), even though some rappers might have incidental talent in other areas. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/73 "2010-08-08T05:24:40Z")
You know what is real bullshit? Pianos. What the hell. You are just pressing keys in order. No more different that pressing buttons. It’s so basic that we invented pianos that play themselves. If someone is going to call themselves a musician, I want them to do something that requires actual talent, not just plodding away one a bunch of fixed keys that someone else invented and tuned. Make your own damn instrument, don’t just steal other people’s work. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/74 "2010-08-08T05:25:02Z")
So, given that I obviously am aware what links I’ve posted and wouldn’t have asked unless I’d posted a hip-hop group doing a show where they were playing their own music, I’m just going to consider > [@](#): > > Rap is basically for people who can’t understand real music. retracted and admitted as bluster, since even by your own definitions you can’t think it’s true. Incidentally, it’s a pretty narrow definition anyway, since it eliminates everybody who is strictly a vocalist from the class of musicians, but hey, whatever. Good luck drawing that line. **Hades** : no. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/75 "2010-08-08T05:25:43Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > If it contains **live** , unstolen music, then I would consider it music. > > Bolding mine. > So. . . it can’t be a recording? Like, if I’m listening to a rap CD. . . that’s not music? I said “live” becuse **Jimmy** specifically said “live.” I’m saying live backing music is legit as long as the music isn’t stolen. So is recorded backing music. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/76 "2010-08-08T05:27:20Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You know what is real bullshit? Pianos. What the hell. You are just pressing keys in order. No more different that pressing buttons. It’s so basic that we invented pianos that play themselves. If someone is going to call themselves a musician, I want them to do something that requires actual talent, not just plodding away one a bunch of fixed keys that someone else invented and tuned. Make your own damn instrument, don’t just steal other people’s work. This is a retarded and witless analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/77 "2010-08-08T05:28:46Z")
I agreed that original composition requires talent. Can we all agree that stealing samples does _not_ require talent? ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/78 "2010-08-08T05:32:37Z")
Deleted post. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/79 "2010-08-08T05:35:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I would need a beat, at least, but the main problem remains that I don’t have any equipment to record or upload a video to the internet, and even if I did, I don’t have a clue how to do it. I’ve honestly never uploaded anything in my life. I don’t even think my computer could handle it. Well, I suppose if the byzantine intricacies of YouTube are too much for you to handle ( :rolleyes: ) it’s probably too much to ask if you have access to iTunes, or a similar online music store? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559/80 "2010-08-08T05:36:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I agreed that original composition requires talent. Can we all agree that stealing samples does _not_ require talent? I actually disagree with that, but more importantly: \*most rap isn’t sampling. \* Thus, your whole assessment is a little misguided. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-rap-hip-hop-ever-go-stale/549559.md?page=5)