# Will right-wing demagogues STFU already about "black-on-black" violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 25, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584 "2014-11-25T11:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/21 "2014-11-25T16:25:51Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > So, if cops had less crime to fight, they might have fewer opportunities to abuse their power. Therefore…? Yes, that’s exactly what I said. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/22 "2014-11-25T16:26:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It’s always easier to complain about bad things that happen to us than to focus on the bad things we do to ourselves. The former cries to the heavens about change others should make. The latter about change we should make ourselves. This is stupid. “Black-on-black crime” is not something that black people are “doing to themselves.” It’s criminals doing something to victims. That they are both black is not a motivation for the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/23 "2014-11-25T16:29:01Z")
I think the OP’s point is that we can legitimately hold the police to a higher standard than we hold civilians. If a good police officer deserves a higher degree of respect for doing his job than a regular worker does then a bad cop deserves a higher degree of condemnation for committing than a regular criminal does. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/24 "2014-11-25T17:21:42Z")
What is this black on black violence you speak of. Sounds like made up stuff to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/25 "2014-11-25T17:45:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > “Black on black crime” is a meaningless concept. If black criminals victimize black victims, the two parties’ blackness is not a factor of causation. > > The treatment of black people by cops, on the other hand, is an issue of public concern because the belief is that cops are treating black people on a certain way _just because they are black_. > **[Feds: 49% Of Murder Victims Are Black Men](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/feds-49-of-murder-victims-are-black-men/)** > > Justice Department Says Most Are 17-29 Years Old, And Their Murder Rate Is Going Up According to the above link black men are way over represented as murder victims per their percentage of the total population and 93 percent of the time their killer is black. I wouldn’t say this is meaningless, it reinforces negative racial biases/stereotypes. It also negatively impacts the children who grow up in violent communities. Especially young men seeing violence as problem solving mechanism. And the white police officers who may have started as well meaning, patrol the areas being on higher state of alert getting increasingly cynical over time. I have no doubt blacks have been screwed over by law enforcement but this Ferguson turned out to be bad example to hang the hat on. Where righties see the lefty hypocrisy is in the cases of George Zimmerman where one young black man was shot by a “white” Hispanic who was not a member of law enforcement and there is a national debate, despite the fact that young black men are being murdered in disproportional numbers in cities across the U.S. It heavily factors into our gun control debates as well, when the U.S. murder is cited nearly half is inner city violence. I’m tending to agree with Rudy, you put a dent in black on black violence it will pay dividends for all Americans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/26 "2014-11-25T17:54:28Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > I’m tending to agree with Rudy, you put a dent in black on black violence it will pay dividends for all Americans. That doesn’t seem to be what Rudy is saying to me – I think he’s saying that the protesters should be protesting black-on-black violence, not disparities in police/justice system’s treatment of black people. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/27 "2014-11-25T18:12:36Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > Where righties see the lefty hypocrisy is in the cases of George Zimmerman where one young black man was shot by a “white” Hispanic who was not a member of law enforcement and there is a national debate, despite the fact that young black men are being murdered in disproportional numbers in cities across the U.S. The difference in that instance, of course, was that an unarmed black teenager was shot dead in the street and it initially wasn’t even treated as potentially a crime or thoroughly investigated. That was the source of the outrage and what made it national news. I’m not sure why this fact seems incapable of permeating the minds of those who think the Trayvon outrage was all because a black person was killed by a white (or not-so-white) person. I would bet that there would have been a similar, albeit lower, level of outrage if an unarmed white teenager had been shot by a neighborhood watchman and the shooter wasn’t arrested or investigated. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/28 "2014-11-25T18:16:21Z")
What Mr. 9/11 seems to be saying is “Who gives a fuck if white cops kill black kids? Black people kill each other anyway,” with a substitute word for black implied. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/29 "2014-11-25T19:08:43Z")
Geez, **Bob** I expect those kinds of lies from **Der Trihs** but I think you might want to dial it back a few before the nice gentlemen with low soothing voices show up with a canvas jacket that laces up the back. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/30 "2014-11-25T19:22:57Z")
Not lies but I appreciate your concern for my mental health. I worry about conservatives, that their physical reaction to the grand jury finding would last more than four hours. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/31 "2014-11-25T19:24:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s only relevant for people who see black people as criminals rather than the victims of crime. Newsflash: black people who commit crimes are criminals. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/32 "2014-11-25T20:42:58Z")
Rudy G is a politician. He will pander to whatever audience or faction he thinks will support and vote for him, and put money in his pocket. Just because he says it, doesn’t mean it is true or that it deserves any sort of “respectful” consideration, or even that he himself believes it. Politicians say all sorts of stupid, inflammatory bullshit, just to stay in the “news”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/33 "2014-11-25T21:34:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Newsflash: black people who commit crimes are criminals. > > Hope that helps. And black people who do not commit crimes are not criminals. Nonetheless, somebody once wrote that black people should see crime as “bad things we do to ourselves.” That’s nonsense. Crime is something criminals do to victims. The victims are not doing the crime to themselves. A black person who gets robbed by a black mugger is no more responsible for the crime than a white person would be if he was robbed by a black mugger. Telling black crime victims that they have to assume responsibility for the crimes they were the victims of and makes changes in their lives is wrong. Holding all black people collectively responsible for the actions of black criminals is racist. I hope this will help. But I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/34 "2014-11-25T21:41:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Not lies but I appreciate your concern for my mental health. I worry about conservatives, that their physical reaction to the grand jury finding would last more than four hours. You’re a fucktard. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/35 "2014-11-25T21:58:09Z")
I don’t think it’s so much that black people care more about white people killing black people than black people killing black people. I think it’s more that the media cares more about white people killing black people, which makes such incidents more of a “thing”. Also, it’s easier to direct your anger at “the other” than at someone you identify with. Black on black crime seems like an intractable problem, whereas white on black crime seems like a problem that can be fought with civil rights marches or something. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/36 "2014-11-25T22:27:34Z")
There’s just a lot of shitty communication on all sides. There is lots of “whites do this and that,” and “cops do this and that,” and there is apparently no need to carefully state, “what I mean is a very small minority of bad-apple whites do this or that,” or “a small minority of bad-apple cops do this or that.” Then, when someone replies, “oh, yeah? Well blacks should do this or that” we get outrage. Ignorant! Racist! Don’t paint us with your evil broad brush! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/37 "2014-11-25T23:49:17Z")
Well, why _can’t_ black people just get together and decide to stop killing each other? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/38 "2014-11-25T23:51:33Z")
And bTW, Rudy Giuliani should be shown a little more respect on the issue given that he’s responsible for several thousand African-Americans being alive today that wouldn’t have been had New York stayed on the same course it had followed under Dinkins’ “There is no law enforcement solution to crime” policy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/39 "2014-11-26T00:02:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And black people who do not commit crimes are not criminals. > > Nonetheless, somebody once wrote that black people should see crime as “bad things we do to ourselves.” That’s nonsense. Crime is something criminals do to victims. The victims are not doing the crime to themselves. A black person who gets robbed by a black mugger is no more responsible for the crime than a white person would be if he was robbed by a black mugger. Telling black crime victims that they have to assume responsibility for the crimes they were the victims of and makes changes in their lives is wrong. Holding all black people collectively responsible for the actions of black criminals is racist. > > I hope this will help. But I doubt it. I see you have trouble reading. Unsurprisingly. No one is blaming black victims. No one. The suggestion is that the black _community_, like that in Ferguson or Chicago, or even writ large, look to those things that are killing great numbers of people within those communities. Like, oh I don’t know—BLACK CRIMINALS, you dumb fuck. But you go ahead and continue to blame whitey. How’s that been working out for you so far? The innocent—non-criminal—blacks in Chicago that will be killed in the coming weeks, months and years will surely be grateful to you. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584/40 "2014-11-26T00:39:58Z")
Actually I think what Nemo said was helpful, but I also think it doesn’t diagnose the problem very well. Black people aren’t expected to be responsible for the criminals in their midst. They are expected to NOT take responsibility for them by defending them. It does seem as if many times the focus of sympathy ends up being on the perpetrator if he is black, rather than the victim, even if the victim is black. There were all kinds of demands for justice for Lionel Tate, not too much for the little black girl he beat to death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-right-wing-demagogues-stfu-already-about-black-on-black-violence/705584.md?page=3)