# Will Romney getting caught lying in an ad hurt his chances? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245 "2012-10-29T18:46:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/41 "2012-10-30T02:53:04Z")
Isn’t it a little like the Bush yellow-cake lies? “We heard from someone that Sadam was trying to buy yellow-cake?” When his own CIA briefings were telling him that it just wasn’t true… Or Bachman’s “Well, I heard vaccinations caused retardation…” It’s simply par for the course… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/42 "2012-10-30T03:36:04Z")
[http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1](http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1) To counter the severe slump in European sales, Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/43 "2012-10-30T05:29:08Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > What evidence do you have that Jeep was thinking about moving all production? > > They weren’t, so Romney repeated false information. The first time, it was a stupid mistake, because he believes right-wing glurge is real. The second time, he just didn’t give a shit that it wasn’t true. The second time (in the ad), he didn’t say anything about Jeep moving production. We already covered this. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/44 "2012-10-30T10:24:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1](http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1) > > To counter the severe slump in European sales, Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said. This seems supportive ( to me, at least) of Chrysler weaseling away from what they said and intended, after it bit them in the ass. A sloppily written article that appears to contradict itself doesn’t change that. There’s only one campaign that flat-out lied with regard to this, and it wasn’t Romney’s. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/45 "2012-10-30T10:57:15Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > How else to interpret this portion of the Bloomberg article (emphasis added)?:I don’t see anything false about Romney’s comments if he’s referencing this. Obama’s ad is consequently a lie (and Chrysler / Fiat is weaseling). I wonder if getting caught in such a falsehood will hurt his chances? 😃 This is how it should be interpreted: By “Localizing the entire portfolio”, what Manley means is build the entire Jeep lineup that is sold in China, in China. He is debating whether they should do this with the entire lineup or just part of it. He is definitely not talking about building cars in China to sell in the US. The same applies to Italy. They sell Jeeps in Europe, they are all currently imported from the US, if they do produce some models in Italy, certainly most or all of them will be also sold in the EU. The thing you have to understand is that no one actually _wants_ to make cars in China. The only reason any car production happens at all in China is that China is a closed domestic market, with high tariffs and other barriers to entry. There is no actual advantage to doing so, car production isn’t really that labour intensive vs capital intensive, and whatever small costs might be saved through labour will be lost 10 fold through other “costs” of doing business in China. No major foreign car company I know of builds cars in China to sell in the US, or hell any other country outside of China with the sole exception of Honda, which sources the Honda Fit for the Canadian market from China. This was only due to their bad luck of having both of their other major production facilities in Japan and Thailand being shut down by freak natural disasters in the same year. This is kind of true for Italy too, although not to the same extent. European carmakers that sell in the US mostly build their cars in the US or Mexico, with a smattering from either Eastern Europe or South Africa. It just makes more business sense. I think Romney’s statements are technically correct. Since currently all Jeeps sold in China are built in the US, every Jeep they build in China means one less Jeep built in the US. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/46 "2012-10-30T11:51:47Z")
It only matters to his opponents not the devoted. The devoted are impressed with his ability to dance around and not say much specifically. They don’t care if the facts are wrong. Because it’s all just code for, “We’ll have it all our way, (on gay marriage, abortion, birth control, etc.), just let’s get the White House, no matter what we have to say to get there!” Because his people _know_ what he really wants to do, (comforted knowing it won’t be popular, but it’s what this country needs!), I don’t think they really care what he says! The bullshit lies and nonsense are just to keep the left livid, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/47 "2012-10-30T13:07:45Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I think Romney’s statements are technically correct. Since currently all Jeeps sold in China are built in the US, every Jeep they build in China means one less Jeep built in the US. Not if sales in China will be higher if the vehicles are made in China. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/48 "2012-10-30T13:26:46Z")
When was the last time an American politician’s chances were hurt by lying? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/49 "2012-10-30T13:51:29Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > When was the last time an American politician’s chances were hurt by lying? I think it was when we were supposed to read Bush Sr’s lips. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/50 "2012-10-30T14:42:09Z")
So, you figure Bush Sr. was really lying about not wanting to put in new taxes? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/51 "2012-10-30T14:56:22Z")
They’re certainly in say-anything mode. The campaign is making up stuff about the auto bailout and Norm Coleman is swearing to Ohio voters that Roe v. Wade won’t be overturned under Romney. It’ll be interesting to see if the religious right makes a peep in response to those statements. The big unknown here is what kind of news coverage any of this gets in the next couple of days as storm coverage dies down. Obama’s going to need to have someone respond forcefully on these issues and I’m not sure he’ll be in a position to do it himself. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/52 "2012-10-30T15:18:19Z")
At this point in the election I don’t understand why anyone would think lying is going to hurt Romney. Did you miss the last six months? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/53 "2012-10-30T16:38:53Z")
Yeah, I doubt it’ll move the needle in either direction. [Here’s the Fact Checker from The Washington Post on the topic.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/4-pinocchios-for-mitt-romneys-misleading-ad-on-chrysler-and-china/2012/10/29/2a153a04-21d7-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_blog.html) He gives Romney four pinocchios. He also uses the phrase, "This ad shows that we have entered the final, desperate week of the campaign. " ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/54 "2012-10-30T22:16:27Z")
I think this may be a huge blunder for Romney, underappreciated due to the storm, but the CEO of Chrysler [put out a memo to employees](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/chrysler-ceo-jeep-production-isnt-moving-to-china/), essentially basically called Romney a liar and he gets to highlight all the things they are going to do for Ohio. This is getting play in the Ohio press, too. > [@](#): > > Chrysler Group’s production plans for the Jeep® brand have become the focus of public debate. > > I feel obliged to unambiguously restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China. > > North American production is critical to achieving our goal of selling 800,000 Jeep vehicles by 2014. In fact, U.S. production of our Jeep models has nearly tripled (it is expected to be up 185%) since 2009 in order to keep up with global demand. > > We also are investing to improve and expand our entire U.S. operations, including our Jeep facilities. The numbers tell the story: > > • We will invest more than $1.7 billion to develop and produce the next generation Jeep SUV, the successor of the Jeep Liberty — including $500 million directly to tool and expand our Toledo Assembly Complex and will be adding about 1,100 jobs on a second shift by 2013. > > • At our Jefferson North Assembly Plant, where we build the Jeep Grand Cherokee, we have created 2,000 jobs since June 2009 and have invested more than $1.8 billion. > > • In Belvidere, where we build two Jeep models, we have added two shifts since 2009 resulting in an additional 2,600 jobs. > > With the increase in demand for our vehicles, especially Jeep branded vehicles, we have added more than 11,200 U.S. jobs since 2009. Plants producing Jeep branded vehicles alone have seen the number of people invested in the success of the Jeep brand grow to more than 9,300 hourly jobs from 4,700. This will increase by an additional 1,100 as the Liberty successor, which will be produced in Toledo, is introduced for global distribution in the second quarter of 2013. > > Together, we are working to establish a global enterprise and previously announced our intent to return Jeep production to China, the world’s largest auto market, in order to satisfy local market demand, which would not otherwise be accessible. Chrysler Group is interested in expanding the customer base for our award-winning Jeep vehicles, which can only be done by establishing local production. This will ultimately help bolster the Jeep brand, and solidify the resilience of U.S. jobs. > > Jeep is one of our truly global brands with uniquely American roots. This will never change. So much so that we committed that the iconic Wrangler nameplate, currently produced in our Toledo, Ohio plant, will never see full production outside the United States. > > Jeep assembly lines will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand. > > It is inaccurate to suggest anything different. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/55 "2012-10-30T22:50:56Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I think this may be a huge blunder for Romney, underappreciated due to the storm, but the CEO of Chrysler [put out a memo to employees](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/chrysler-ceo-jeep-production-isnt-moving-to-china/), essentially basically called Romney a liar and he gets to highlight all the things they are going to do for Ohio. This is getting play in the Ohio press, too. That’s because that asshole doubled down on the lie in [a new radio spot](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/30/14809215-romney-doubles-down-on-jeep-attack-in-radio-ad?lite)! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/56 "2012-10-30T23:41:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The ad says “Romney’s false claim of Jeep outsourcing to China”. > > In the rally, he said he read a story about it, which he did. In his ad, he says nothing about outsourcing. All he says is that Chrysler was bought by Italians who “plan to build Jeeps in China”, which they do plan on doing. They claim they are not doing so at the expense of existing US jobs, but they still plan on building them in China, according to Chrysler: I read\* that Romney plans to sacrifice all the firstborn of the land to Satan. \*in this post’s review-and-edit window ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/57 "2012-10-30T23:43:28Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I think this may be a huge blunder for Romney, underappreciated due to the storm, but the CEO of Chrysler [put out a memo to employees](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/chrysler-ceo-jeep-production-isnt-moving-to-china/), essentially basically called Romney a liar and he gets to highlight all the things they are going to do for Ohio. This is getting play in the Ohio press, too. Initially, I agreed with the cynical position that Romney lying was going to be a pig/grunt situation - completely unremarkable to anyone. However, pushing it to the point of getting a counter response like this… I think that changes things up quite a bit. I do think this becomes a damaging thing for Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/58 "2012-10-31T00:54:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Initially, I agreed with the cynical position that Romney lying was going to be a pig/grunt situation - completely unremarkable to anyone. > > However, pushing it to the point of getting a counter response like this… I think that changes things up quite a bit. I do think this becomes a damaging thing for Romney. He’s completely screwed in Ohio. The new radio ad not only lies about Jeep production, but insinuates GM is going to cost Americans jobs, too. As a result … “[GM spokesman Greg Martin also responded to Romney’s radio ad on Tuesday](http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/bogus-jeep-china-ad-romney-draws-fire-obama-203642902.html): ‘We’ve clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days. No amount of campaign politics at its cynical worst will diminish our record of creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country.’” ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/59 "2012-10-31T01:04:54Z")
The 1990s called–it wants its thread back. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/60 "2012-10-31T02:33:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Initially, I agreed with the cynical position that Romney lying was going to be a pig/grunt situation - completely unremarkable to anyone. > > However, pushing it to the point of getting a counter response like this… I think that changes things up quite a bit. I do think this becomes a damaging thing for Romney. Well, it comes down to what people are talking about in Ohio. I don’t live there, and I don’t think you or **Shayna** do either, so the question is: Does any of that stuff put out by GM get to the average voter? If it does, then maybe it will have an effect. If not, then not. I honestly don’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245.md?page=4)