# Will Romney getting caught lying in an ad hurt his chances? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245 "2012-10-29T18:46:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/61 "2012-10-31T02:43:48Z")
Oh, one other thing. GM is not one of the evil corporations that lies and manipulates the electoral process. People will believe them because, what’s good for GM is good for to country? Is this the progressive position or the conservative position, because I’m a little confused. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/62 "2012-10-31T02:50:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, one other thing. GM is not one of the evil corporations that lies and manipulates the electoral process. People will believe them because, what’s good for GM is good for to country? Is this the progressive position or the conservative position, because I’m a little confused. Oops. Chrysler, not GM. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/63 "2012-10-31T03:19:58Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I think this may be a huge blunder for Romney, underappreciated due to the storm, but the CEO of Chrysler [put out a memo to employees](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/chrysler-ceo-jeep-production-isnt-moving-to-china/), essentially basically called Romney a liar and he gets to highlight all the things they are going to do for Ohio. This is getting play in the Ohio press, too. [http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1](http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1) To counter the severe slump in European sales,\*\* Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America\*\*. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/64 "2012-10-31T05:39:26Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1](http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1) > > To counter the severe slump in European sales,\*\* Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America\*\*. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said. The [actual announced plan](http://www.freep.com/article/20121030/BUSINESS0103/121030055/1207/Business01/Fiat-export-Jeep-Alfa-Romeo-Maserati-from-underused-Italian-factories): > [@](#): > > The plan is aimed at reducing Fiat’s dependence on small cars and using more of its productive capacity in Italy where its factories are making less than half the cars they are equipped to build … Under the plan, Fiat will produce a small Jeep SUV in Italy that is **not currently made anywhere else in the world**. That SUV will be sold both in Europe and in the U.S., and **will not shift any planned U.S. production**. (My bolding.) Does anyone, especially Romney, not understand that this is a global business? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/65 "2012-10-31T06:13:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The [actual announced plan](http://www.freep.com/article/20121030/BUSINESS0103/121030055/1207/Business01/Fiat-export-Jeep-Alfa-Romeo-Maserati-from-underused-Italian-factories): > (My bolding.) > > Does anyone, especially Romney, not understand that this is a global business? You do understand that the article I quoted and Romney’s speech both were out before that plan was announced, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/66 "2012-10-31T07:23:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You do understand that the article I quoted and Romney’s speech both were out before that plan was announced, right? and YOU _do_ understand the [article](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html)in question predates all: your article, Romney’s attack (lie) AND the actual announcement…right? > [@](#): > > “Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites \*\*rather than shifting output from North America to China. \*\*” ^see that little portion, there? from oct 21st? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/67 "2012-10-31T07:43:21Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > and YOU _do_ understand the [article](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html)in question predates all: your article, Romney’s attack (lie) AND the actual announcement…right? > > ^see that little portion, there? from oct 21st? From your article: “Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to **return Jeep output to China** and may eventually **make all of its models in that country** , according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.” Maybe you can explain to me how the company can manage to move production of “all of its models” to China, while leaving production in US intact. That’s a neat trick. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/68 "2012-10-31T08:07:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > From your article: > > “Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to **return Jeep output to China** and may eventually **make all of its models in that country** , according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.” > > Maybe you can explain to me how the company can manage to move production of “all of its models” to China, while leaving production in US intact. That’s a neat trick. Do you understand it is possible to make one model of car in more than one place? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/69 "2012-10-31T08:13:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > From your article: > > “Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to **return Jeep output to China** and may eventually **make all of its models in that country** , according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.” > > Maybe you can explain to me how the company can manage to move production of “all of its models” to China, while leaving production in US intact. That’s a neat trick. I posted this earlier. They’re thinking of offering all their models in China. Built there, for there. Not stopping production here. If they make ten models of cars, they are thinking of making all ten there, in addition to here. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/70 "2012-10-31T08:33:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > From your article: > > “Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to **return Jeep output to China** and may eventually **make all of its models in that country** , according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.” > > Maybe you can explain to me how the company can manage to move production of “all of its models” to China, while leaving production in US intact. That’s a neat trick. maybe i can. _just maybe_. you see, there’s intense tariffs on exporting autos into china, so much so it limits the viability of the Chrysler market there. and china is trying to (or just did) increase those tariffs even more–even though[Other tariffs and taxes already in place have limited sales of American imports by helping raise their retail prices by about three times what the same cars and S.U.V.s sell for in the United States](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/business/global/china-imposes-new-tariffs-on-some-vehicles-from-the-us.html?pagewanted=all). so, you see, Terr, making _all the line-up’s_ models _in_ china, to sell _in_ china creates both a new job industry _and_ a selling market that has nothing to do with US jobs (but everything to do with keeping a multinational global car-company profitable in more markets)–all while having zero effect on America’s market, Jobs, production, etc.. business! :high-fives Terr!: ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/71 "2012-10-31T10:09:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, one other thing. GM is not one of the evil corporations that lies and manipulates the electoral process. People will believe them because, what’s good for GM is good for to country? Is this the progressive position or the conservative position, because I’m a little confused. So, you’re not so interested in discussing the topic as you are in bitching at liberals. Got it, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/72 "2012-10-31T15:23:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You do understand that the article I quoted and Romney’s speech both were out before that plan was announced, right? Why yes, yes I do. Romney’s lie had nothing to do with the Italy claim. You brought up this new claim of what Fiat was planning to do and I was merely updating with what the plan actually was rather than speculation about what it might be and how even that does not support any claim of moving any American jobs out of the country. To Italy let alone to China. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/73 "2012-11-01T06:01:47Z")
[Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/in-ohio-romneys-ads-against-auto-bailout-make-pitch-to-the-decideds/2012/10/31/6cb13e86-2375-11e2-ba29-238a6ac36a08_story.html?hpid=z1)reports that it may be targeting their base to get the vote out. > [@](#): > > So in an area heavily reliant on the auto business, and where Republicans may be tired of hearing that President Obama saved the industry, the ads could provide one last bit of encouragement to Romney supporters such as Danforth to make it out next week. > > “I see this more as a turnout game than a persuasion ad,” said Patrick Haney, a political science professor at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. “I take it as an indication that they believe they’re behind. . . . So they might as well be a little riskier and on the edge.” ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/74 "2012-11-01T06:31:32Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > maybe i can. _just maybe_. > > you see, there’s intense tariffs on exporting autos into china, so much so it limits the viability of the Chrysler market there. > > and china is trying to (or just did) increase those tariffs even more–even though[Other tariffs and taxes already in place have limited sales of American imports by helping raise their retail prices by about three times what the same cars and S.U.V.s sell for in the United States](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/business/global/china-imposes-new-tariffs-on-some-vehicles-from-the-us.html?pagewanted=all). > > so, you see, Terr, making _all the line-up’s_ models _in_ china, to sell _in_ china creates both a new job industry _and_ a selling market that has nothing to do with US jobs (but everything to do with keeping a multinational global car-company profitable in more markets)–all while having zero effect on America’s market, Jobs, production, etc.. > > business! :high-fives Terr!: Not to mention, that there is sure to be a whole bunch of stuff sourced from US suppliers if they do start production in China, from expertise to training to tooling to I don’t know what else ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/75 "2012-11-01T12:07:02Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/in-ohio-romneys-ads-against-auto-bailout-make-pitch-to-the-decideds/2012/10/31/6cb13e86-2375-11e2-ba29-238a6ac36a08_story.html?hpid=z1)reports that it may be targeting their base to get the vote out. Interesting. I guess they’re calculating that the “pathological liars who weren’t going to vote at all” segment of the voting population might just put them over the top. I doubt they’re right. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-romney-getting-caught-lying-in-an-ad-hurt-his-chances/639245/76 "2012-11-01T12:38:49Z")
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