# Will Senate Republicans use the "nuclear option"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 31, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027 "2005-03-31T00:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/1 "2005-03-31T00:34:03Z")
For those who missed this insignificant news tidbit over the weekend, Chief Justice William Rehnquist went to a hospital over the weekend with breathing problems. He returned to the bench Monday, but the move has reminded folks that George W. Bush may end up nominating new justices to the Supreme Court, along with his other ongoing judicial nominations. The only thing stopping the Bush Administration from flooding the courts with right-wing ideologues are the Senate Democrats, who – though outnumbered – are currently able to use the filibuster to block the more objectionable candidates. Annoyed at the Dems for actually exercising checks and balances, however, Senate Republicans (led by Bill Frist) have threatened that, if the Democrats won’t roll over and play dead, they will use the [“nuclear option,”](http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/3104717) and change Senate rules to eliminate the use of filibusters. The Democrats have [counter-threatened](http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/election2004/11238475.htm) to halt most of the Senate’s business, triggering a partial government shutdown, if this happens. The ball is now in the Senate Republicans’ court. Shall we debate the possible outcomes? Is this mere bullying/grandstanding from the Senate Republicans, or are they really willing to poison the well over this? (As for me, I think threatening to remove the filibuster is blatantly stupid, as it looks like a naked partisan power grab, and actually _doing_ it would be idiotic beyond belief. But then, IMO the Republican Party has been overdosing stupidity since the Gingrich years…) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/2 "2005-03-31T00:56:43Z")
A minor nit: I believe the “nuclear option” (wish I’ve heard referred to recently as “filibuster reform” – you gotta love these guys) would only eliminate filibusters for judicial nominees. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/3 "2005-03-31T01:07:47Z")
If the Dems are going to filibuster the Judicial nominees why wouldn’t the just filibuster the act that eliminates filibustering. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/4 "2005-03-31T01:09:00Z")
I thought I’d preempt anyone that wants to step in with the chestnut that the Democrat’s opposition and filibustering of candidates is “unprecedented”. [Nonsense.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45149-2005Mar17.html) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/5 "2005-03-31T01:32:56Z")
A partial government shutdown? That’s what I’m hoping for. Anytime we can keep these people, on either side of the aisle, from fucking things up worse is a good day in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/6 "2005-03-31T01:34:02Z")
It isn’t just filbibusters: this is just the last in a long line of proceedural checks available to a minority party thatthe Republicans used to get tons of mileage out of, but have now dismantled that they are in power. One wonders why the Democrats didn’t dismantle these checks when they were in power? It probably comes down to values… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/7 "2005-03-31T02:38:00Z")
I suspect they won’t try, to answer the OP directly. The nuclear option is something that only a party with not only a majority, however slight, but overweening confidence that the public will fall in behind their agenda, would try. That’s the product of ideology, not politics. Now that the centerpiece of the repeal-the-20th-century ideological agenda, the gutting of Social Security, is so far out of the realm of the possible that even Frist knows it, combined with their current massive public embarrassment over their Schiavo-case miscalculation, I really don’t think even the hardest partisans among them have the self-confidence to try something that would just show them to be simple power-grabbers with no higher principle. And that brings the slimness of the majority into play. It would take a hard whipping of every Republican, including some serious (and patently insincere) coaxing of the moderates that give them that majority, to do it. Are Snowe, Collins, Chafee, perhaps Voinovich, going to give up the Senate’s power to advise and consent in return for some favor they can’t sell to the home folks anyway? No, if Frist, Cheney & Co. aren’t in the process of actually learning the meaning of the responsibility that’s been entrusted to them, I think they at least may be sufficiently cowed into stopping this crusade they’ve been on. ---
**Author:** ![Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bc79bd/32.png) [@Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hammer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/8 "2005-03-31T02:57:39Z")
No, I don’t think they will. However, the democrats never changed the rules because it wasn’t necessary. They never faced filibusters of lower court appointments. And as the article linked above mentions only once to block the appointment of the chief justice. It was a real “smith goes to washington” filibuster too. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/9 "2005-03-31T04:35:28Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If the Dems are going to filibuster the Judicial nominees why wouldn’t the just filibuster the act that eliminates filibustering. That raises an interesting question: Does the Senate’s traditional right of “unlimited debate” apply to **all** matters, including debates over changes to the Senate’s procedural rules? I can find no answer to that on the relevant page of the Senate’s website ([http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster\_Cloture.htm](http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm)), nor in the relevant Wikipedia article ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster\_(legislative\_tactic)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_%28legislative_tactic%29)). Is there any Doper with deep knowledge of Senate rules? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/10 "2005-03-31T04:37:10Z")
> [@Hammer](#): > > However, the democrats never changed the rules because it wasn’t necessary. They never faced filibusters of lower court appointments. 😕 During the Clinton Administration I recall a lot of news stories about Senate Republicans blocking Clinton’s judicial appointees (though I don’t recall if the word “filibuster” was ever used). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/11 "2005-03-31T04:39:57Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > A partial government shutdown? That’s what I’m hoping for. Anytime we can keep these people, on either side of the aisle, from fucking things up worse is a good day in my book. :rolleyes: We’ve had previous “partial government shutdowns” resulting from political impasses between the Capitol and the White House. It was never anything but a big fat pain in the ass for the whole country. Never again! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/12 "2005-03-31T04:48:26Z")
> [@Hammer](#): > > No, I don’t think they will. However, the democrats never changed the rules because it wasn’t necessary. They never faced filibusters of lower court appointments. And as the article linked above mentions only once to block the appointment of the chief justice. It was a real “smith goes to washington” filibuster too. That’s because there were all sorts of other rules that allowed them to block justices which Republicans have now done away with. Jesse Helms basically had an ongoing ban on black justices from his state for years because of the blue slip rule. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/13 "2005-03-31T04:57:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: > > We’ve had previous “partial government shutdowns” resulting from political impasses between the Capitol and the White House. It was never anything but a big fat pain in the ass for the whole country. Never again! How was it a pain in the ass for the entire country? Other than hearing about it every 10 minutes on CNN? Things like SS, Medicare/ -aid, military, roads and all other essential functions were never, and won’t ever, be interrupted. I love gov’t shutdowns because it means they have to concentrate on keeping the country running instead of debating new and increaslingly specialized laws and regulations. Unless you prefer Washington filling the void by coming up with new ways of affecting you, I’m wondering what the rolleyes were for. :wally ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/14 "2005-03-31T05:07:45Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > A partial government shutdown? That’s what I’m hoping for. Anytime we can keep these people, on either side of the aisle, from fucking things up worse is a good day in my book. You, me and Will Rogers ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/15 "2005-03-31T05:17:23Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > That’s because there were all sorts of other rules that allowed them to block justices which Republicans have now done away with. Jesse Helms basically had an ongoing ban on black justices from his state for years because of the blue slip rule. 😕 “Blue slip rule”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/16 "2005-03-31T05:18:30Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Things like SS, Medicare/ -aid, military, roads and all other essential functions were never, and won’t ever, be interrupted. :dubious: Ya **think?!** ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/17 "2005-03-31T05:43:10Z")
Isn’t it highly unusual for a President to get into his second term without making even _one_ nomination? It’s not the Democrats stopping Bush from stacking (or even affecting) the Court, it’s the glommy nature of the Justices themselves. Somebody retire, already; my popcorn’s getting cold. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/18 "2005-03-31T06:02:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: Ya **think?!** No. I **know** , as do you apparently. Care to show how how shutdowns are a “big, fat pain in the ass for the country”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/19 "2005-03-31T11:30:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Care to show how how shutdowns are a “big, fat pain in the ass for the country”? Seriously? From a Clinton address during the the last shutdown (partisan, of course, but I didn’t see an objective list at first glance): > [@](#): > > This week, the Meals On Wheels program for senior citizens will run out of money. Half the Head Start programs in the country will run out of money within the month. The Centers for Disease Control tracking system cannot accurately keep up with the flu outbreak in the midwest. On an average day, 260 small businesses are being denied $40 million in capital – loans that would create new jobs for Americans. > > We are not able to enforce our trade laws to protect our workers and our products. We’re not able to weatherize homes in this winter to protect the elderly from the cold. > > Yesterday, the Environmental Protection Agency shut down toxic waste cleanups at 32 sites across America. Every day, 240 calls to the Drinking Water Contamination Hotline now go unanswered. The EPA’s efforts to prevent cryptosporidium from contaminating city water supplies, something that proved a deadly threat in the city of Milwaukee, have been badly delayed. EPA enforcement efforts have completely stopped. > > Medicare contractors who serve our elderly are not being paid. Many of them now are dipping into their own pockets to keep health care coming, but they won’t be able to do it for long. Ten states have run out of the funding they use to run our unemployment insurance program, and 15 more will so do so. > > Ninety-five percent of all workplace safety activities have been shut down. All sweatshop enforcement has been stopped. And investigations into 3,500 potential cases of pension fraud have ground to a halt. > > Two weeks ago when a mill burned down in Massachusetts, workers received immediate assistance for child care, transportation and job training. Last week when 2,000 workers lost their jobs from a Rhode Island factory, the Labor Department could not respond at all. > > Medicaid funding that goes to pay for nursing home care, pregnant women, the disabled, and poor children will be exhausted by the end of this month. Every day we are unable to process 2,500 applications for mortgage insurance. That means now a backlog of 20,000 who are losing their home loans – many of them losing their chance to buy their new homes. Funds to pay for drugs, food and supplies at veterans hospitals run out today. And 170,000 veterans did not receive their December educational benefits. > > At FEMA, an agency that has been universally praised by Republicans and Democrats alike, the emergency food and shelter program for people facing disasters has run out of funds. And according to Director James Lee Witt, some state emergency management agencies have actually had to shut their operations. We can only hope that they will not suffer a disaster while this occurs. > > The Secretary of State reports that this shutdown is adversely affecting the national security of the country. We are running the risk of not being able to maintain our diplomacy abroad. And this shutdown, frankly, is injuring the reputation of the United States around the world. People wonder what is going on. > > The shutdown has been especially devastating to hundreds of thousands of dedicated public servants who work for the American people through the federal government. Some of them have actually had their phones cut off, or can no longer pay for child care because they are working without pay or because they are not permitted to work. Some of those are so dedicated to their mission that they’ve actually tried to go to work and had to be run off. All sorts of basic services are cut off (need a passport?), huge numbers of federal employees are temporarily out of work, etc. I can sympathize with your desire to keep Congress et al. from mucking things up for a little while, but a government shutdown clearly does more harm than good. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027/20 "2005-03-31T11:32:47Z")
Sorry, [link](http://www.clintonfoundation.org/legacy/010396-presidential-statement.htm) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-senate-republicans-use-the-nuclear-option/297027.md?page=2)