# Will South Africa go the way of Zimbabwe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248 "2011-05-09T09:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/262 "2011-06-03T09:50:57Z")
> [@Placid\_Liver](#): > > I said I might be incorrect, so I have no cite. Instead I ask you, cite for proving SA is still a nett exporter? [Agriculture Trade Performance Review Q4 2010](http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/sideMenu/internationalTrade/docs/itrade/SA_DAFF_TradePerfomanceReview_Q4of2010.pdf): > [@](#): > > South Africa’s total agri-food exports to the world increased during the first three quarters of the year and decline in the last quarter. When compared with the previous quarter, agri-food exports declined from R14.3 billion in the third quarter to R10.3 billion in quarter four of 2010. On the other hand, total agri-food imports decline during the first semester of the year and then increased during the second semester. Imports increased from R9.5 billion in the third quarter to R10.1 billion in the fourth quarter of 2010. Variations in agri-food exports and imports are largely influenced by the seasonal nature of agricultural produce. In overall South Africa remains a net exporter of agric-food products. Figure 1 in the document shows that the only year in the last decade in which South Africa was a net importer of food was 2007. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/263 "2011-06-03T11:00:43Z")
> [@Placid\_Liver](#): > > But for the sake of interest, please list all the power stations built in the last 15 years, list total MW output along with the increase in demand in the same time. Not relevant. They’re building them _now_. And power plants are the sort of major infrastructure projects that have decades-long lead times. > [@](#): > > And then explain load-shedding. Increased industrialization, increased urbanization, increased electrification of the poor, increased standard of living of the not-so-poor. Several stations put in mothballs at the end of the _Ancién Regime_. Simple. > [@](#): > > I said I might be incorrect, so I have no cite. Instead I ask you, cite for proving SA is still a nett exporter? Wiki is your friend. ETA: or **ctnguy**. > [@](#): > > You can’t just make up ad-hoc excuses either. There’s nothing _ad hoc_ about those reasons. They’re all commonly acknowledged. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: Leave strawmen at the door thanks. I said: “clearly all the fault of mining corporations and the old regime”. What part of that suggests overnight? Well, if it wasn’t the fault of the old regime, then it would be only in the last 16 years, right? That\* is\* overnight in hydrological terms. And I (and every other geologist on the moines) knew AMD was a problem for Rand Water in the late 80s already. That “old regime”-enough for you? > [@](#): > > Are you an ANC party spokesman or something? Not at all. I don’t like the ANC even a little bit. > [@](#): > > That sounds suspiciously like their response when accused of corruption. “oh, it happens in the western world, so what if it happens here too?” Wrong attitude entirely. It’s perfectly relevant when the whole thread is about what a “unique” set of fuckups SA and Zim are. Pointing out that water supply is a worldwide problem is not a case of _tu quoque_, it doesn’t lessen the extent of the problem, it only addresses the needless fingerpointing. And I notice you ignore the even more relevant point about new dams. > [@](#): > > The majority of benefits STILL go to a fractional minority, only their label is BEE/AA/EE/etc. I think you’ll find that the majority of \*everything \*is still in the hands of middle-aged White men, actually, from companies to farms. > [@](#): > > You cannot deny the horrific disparity - still growing - between haves and have-nots, just because the haves are now darker in skin. I disagree that the disparity is growing. South Africa has always been a fundamentally inequitable society, but a rising Black middle class is making it _less_ so. You’re flat-out wrong. > [@](#): > > In short, you are simply making the same excuses the ANC does for having made such poor strides forward in development, for having neglected vital infrastructure for so long, and for generally just doing a crap job of running the country. They do a better job than the nats. As I’ve pointed out in these threads before, South Africa is measurably better off in every way - economically, socially - except AIDS and some sorts of crime. And getting better every year, even in those fields. > [@](#): > > Saying it’s better than apartheid is valid on humanitarian levels only, and that is not in dispute. It’s better on _every_ level. > [@](#): > > What is in dispute is whether they are leading the country on a path similar to Zimbabwe’s. They are not. > [@](#): > > However, you justifiably are hung up on pointing out the hateful atrocities of the past, so I’m not sure there’s much point in arguing with you, as you are not viewing the situation very objectively. I’m not hung up on Apartheid. Apartheid is a very real fact one has to take into account when explaining the situation in SA. Anyone who glosses over it as a reason for most _anything_ to do with SA is the one not being objective. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/264 "2011-06-03T11:03:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Where did **that** come from?! Don’t know. Possibly **PL** is a disgruntled White South African? I dunno his connection. ---
**Author:** ![Placid\_Liver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e99b99/32.png) [@Placid\_Liver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Placid_Liver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/265 "2011-06-03T12:18:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not relevant. I’ll follow suit and summarily dismiss your entire post as not relevant, even if it was, like the point I made. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Don’t know. Possibly **PL** is a disgruntled White South African? I dunno his connection. You wish! I can just as easily say I don’t know your connection to the ANC, but maybe you’re a high-ranking party member. You claim otherwise? So what, you’re claiming a bunch of other bs as fact too, and it isn’t, but you can’t get around your hatred and argue facts without emotion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/266 "2011-06-03T12:50:44Z")
> [@Placid\_Liver](#): > > The majority of benefits STILL go to a fractional minority, only their label is BEE/AA/EE/etc. 😕 What do those labels mean? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/267 "2011-06-03T13:26:26Z")
> [@Placid\_Liver](#): > > I’ll follow suit and summarily dismiss your entire post as not relevant, even if it was, like the point I made. The capacity of power installed post-Apartheid is irrelevant to the point that they’re building the plants now, which was _my_ point. You said 16 years was long enough to build a couple of power plants. I pointed out that it really isn’t. You came back with a question on how much power had been installed post-apartheid. How is that relevant to my point? I never claimed that they’d built them, only that they’re building them now, and that 16 years really isn’t a long time for major infrastructure. > [@](#): > > You wish! No, I really, really don’t. So, if not a disgruntled White South African, are you a disgruntled Black South African? Any kind of South African at all? A recent immigrant? Anything? > [@](#): > > I can just as easily say I don’t know your connection to the ANC, but maybe you’re a high-ranking party member. Except I’ve explicitly stated otherwise, and my location and relationship to SA is open record on this board. Your beef, not so much. Let’s say it’s not a casual past-time on the Dope to pop into Southern Africa threads and spout off the lingo without some connection to the place. It’s usually people with questions (like **Brainglutton** ), people who I know live here (me, **ctnguy** , **grimpixie** ), others with some connection ( **evensven** ’s coming out here soon, **AT** maintains an abiding interest in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe), and then the serial race realists like **Chen** and that lot. But you’re not one of those groups that I can tell. And you don’t post very frequently, yet this topic interested you and you seem to think you know about the place. So either current or ex-resident springs to mind. > [@](#): > > So what, you’re claiming a bunch of other bs as fact too Are you calling me a liar? Show where I’ve lied, then. Point to the “bs as fact” that I’ve claimed. > [@](#): > > , you can’t get around your hatred and argue facts without emotion. What “hatred” would that be, pray tell? The old Apartheid government? Well, yeah, I guess I hated them, but they’re hardly relevant anymore, and the ones that mattered are dead. Or did you have a more general object of my “hatred” in mind? I can’t help but feel that you’re hinting at something, but I just can’t put my finger on it…:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/268 "2011-06-03T13:28:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 What do those labels mean? BEE=[Black Economic Empowerment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad-Based_Black_Economic_Empowerment) AA=Affirmative Action EE =Economic Empowerment(I guess?) ---
**Author:** ![Placid\_Liver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e99b99/32.png) [@Placid\_Liver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Placid_Liver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/269 "2011-06-03T13:58:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > 16 years really isn’t a long time for major infrastructure. Then we disagree I guess. > [@](#): > > So, if not a disgruntled White South African, are you a disgruntled Black South African? Any kind of South African at all? A recent immigrant? Anything? I don’t see the relevance. Our skin colors need not come into this discussion any more than apartheid. > [@](#): > > Except I’ve explicitly stated otherwise, and my location and relationship to SA is open record on this board. Your beef, not so much. I am not in the habit of disclosing personal information on forums, not about to start now. > [@](#): > > spout off the lingo without some connection to the place. Spout off lingo? Some abbreviations? I think you’re connecting dots that aren’t connected. I’m sorry I don’t fall into some easily categorizable group for you to recognize and stereotype. > [@](#): > > yet this topic interested you and you seem to think you know about the place. I apologize for: having been bored at work yesterday having previously read about Southern Africa > [@](#): > > Point to the “bs as fact” that I’ve claimed. You made several claims about improvements in South Africa which are arguable, yet you stated as fact. Including the OP matter, which I think only time will reveal. > [@](#): > > What “hatred” would that be, pray tell? > The old Apartheid government? Yes. Nothing more, I’ve seen posts from you before on this forum and I think you are an intelligent poster capable of arguing very well, but on this particular topic you seem to be including more emotion then it requires. If we wish to conclude that life in SA has been a bowl of peaches and cream since apartheid ended, fine. But I don’t think it’s constructive to approach the OP in the way it was done. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/270 "2011-06-03T14:00:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So, if not a disgruntled White South African, are you a disgruntled Black South African? Any kind of South African at all? A recent immigrant? Anything?Except I’ve explicitly stated otherwise, and my location and relationship to SA is open record on this board. Your beef, not so much. > > Let’s say it’s not a casual past-time on the Dope to pop into Southern Africa threads and spout off the lingo without some connection to the place. It’s usually people with questions (like **Brainglutton** ), people who I know live here (me, **ctnguy** , **grimpixie** ), others with some connection ( **evensven** ’s coming out here soon, **AT** maintains an abiding interest in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe), and then the serial race realists like **Chen** and that lot. But you’re not one of those groups that I can tell. And you don’t post very frequently, yet this topic interested you and you seem to think you know about the place. So either current or ex-resident springs to mind. If I hear somebody who might be South African badmouth the ANC, the first thing I think of is “opposition.” At present, the main opposition party to the ANC is the [Democratic Alliance.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Alliance_(South_Africa)) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/271 "2011-06-03T14:43:34Z")
> [@Placid\_Liver](#): > > Yes. Nothing more, I’ve seen posts from you before on this forum and I think you are an intelligent poster capable of arguing very well, but on this particular topic you seem to be including more emotion then it requires. Ya know, I’m not South African and I don’t know either you or **Mr Dibble** but in this thread I’m seeing a lot more emotive responses in your posts than in his. I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/272 "2011-06-03T15:24:24Z")
> [@Placid\_Liver](#): > > Then we disagree I guess. And your experience with big infrastructure projects is…? > [@](#): > > I don’t see the relevance. Our skin colors need not come into this discussion any more than apartheid. I was only going for completism. The real question was: what is your _experience_ with South Africa? > [@](#): > > I am not in the habit of disclosing personal information on forums, not about to start now. Pffl. You’re willing to lay your lovelife all out in the open on public fora, but when it comes to a simple question about standing, you get all coy? It’s your prerogative, I guess, but it certainly doesn’t reassure me as to your motives. > [@](#): > > Spout off lingo? Some abbreviations? I think you’re connecting dots that aren’t connected. BEE is a _very_ SA-local term. > [@](#): > > I’m sorry I don’t fall into some easily categorizable group for you to recognize and stereotype. I don’t need to do that. Your posts stand for themselves. > [@](#): > > You made several claims about improvements in South Africa which are arguable, yet you stated as fact. Like I said, I’ve previously cited the economic facts etc. As to the power plant thing, you still haven’t shown where I’m wrong. > [@](#): > > Including the OP matter, which I think only time will reveal. Time isn’t needed. All that is needed is to note the differences between SA and Zimbabwe. > [@](#): > > Yes. Nothing more, I’ve seen posts from you before on this forum and I think you are an intelligent poster capable of arguing very well, but on this particular topic you seem to be including more emotion then it requires. Hating Apartheid =/= defending the ANC regardless of facts. > [@](#): > > If we wish to conclude that life in SA has been a bowl of peaches and cream since apartheid ended, fine. No-one’s said that. What _has_ been said is a) it’s not as bad as people overseas might have read b) it’s getting better all the time c) it’s not exclusively (or even mainly) the ANC’s fault that it’s not d) it was measurably worse under Apartheid. Those are all things I said, and I stand by them. > [@](#): > > But I don’t think it’s constructive to approach the OP in the way it was done. What, with facts and the view from the actual country under discussion? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If I hear somebody who might be South African badmouth the ANC, the first thing I think of is “opposition.” At present, the main opposition party to the ANC is the [Democratic Alliance.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Alliance_(South_Africa)) You should note\* I’m\* exclusively a DA voter. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/273 "2011-06-03T15:55:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You should note\* I’m\* exclusively a DA voter. Why? That is, from a South African voter’s POV, what’s the difference between the two parties? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/274 "2011-06-04T09:21:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why? That is, from a South African voter’s POV, what’s the difference between the two parties? Less corrupt politicians, generally smarter politicians (note that the common “Politician = Lawyer/Businessman” part of US culture isn’t as prevalent here. Helen Zille, DA leader, was a journalist, for example) and a proven track record of service delivery in my home province and city. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/275 "2011-06-04T20:44:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Less corrupt politicians, generally smarter politicians (note that the common “Politician = Lawyer/Businessman” part of US culture isn’t as prevalent here. Helen Zille, DA leader, was a journalist, for example) and a proven track record of service delivery in my home province and city. Any differences in fundamental goals, ideology or political culture? And what do you think are the DA’s future prospects? Is there any conceivable scenario where the ANC could lose a significant part of its 65% vote share? Or split into two or more parties? SA will be a one-party democracy (like Mexico under the PRI) at the national level until one or the other happens. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/276 "2011-06-04T21:35:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Any differences in fundamental goals, ideology or political culture? > > And what do you think are the DA’s future prospects? Is there any conceivable scenario where the ANC could lose a significant part of its 65% vote share? Or split into two or more parties? SA will be a one-party democracy (like Mexico under the PRI) at the national level until one or the other happens. The ANC already spilt a year or two ago when Zuma forced Mbeki into early retirement. IIRC some long standing members felt that the Zuma’s ANC was too left-wing and started a whole new party. Meet the [Congress of the people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_the_People_(South_African_political_party)) (COPE) an economically liberal (center right) alternative to the ANC and the third biggest party in South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/277 "2011-06-04T21:36:36Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And a … response to kick off the debate there, **Argent** … > > It’s a young hothead demagogue stirring up trouble … Edited for concision. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/278 "2011-06-05T08:48:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Any differences in fundamental goals, ideology or political culture? > > And what do you think are the DA’s future prospects? Is there any conceivable scenario where the ANC could lose a significant part of its 65% vote share? Or split into two or more parties? SA will be a one-party democracy (like Mexico under the PRI) at the national level until one or the other happens. It is sad to say, but the ANC is basically a black party and the DA is basically a non-black party. In the recent municipal elections, the DA increased its percentage of black voters from 2% to 5%. They got around 23% of the overall vote, which is coincidently close to the percentage of non-black voters in the country as a whole. Using broad brush strokes, I would say that the ANC is leftist, while the DA is rightist - the DA believes in a meritocracy with equality of oppurtunity and access, while the ANC believes that policies such as BEE are needed to redress the inequalities of the past. The DA is generally pro-business, while the ANC is pro-poor (at least in their rhetoric). COPE has been a major disapointment - it has turned out to be a refuge for ANC members with an axe to grind and has been plagued by in-fighting and court battles between it’s two figurehead leaders. Historically ANC voters have preferred to boycott elections rather than vote for other parties, and I think it will take a long, long time for this to change. Grim ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/279 "2011-06-05T09:01:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Any differences in fundamental goals, ideology or political culture? Oh yes. The ANC is still at heart strongly Leftist with some moderates, largely run by relatively uneducated men, and has its strongest base in the poor. The DA is Center-Liberal, has a less-man-heavy leadership, and is generally a party of the middle class. It’s also more technocratic. > [@](#): > > And what do you think are the DA’s future prospects? I think they will grow as the middle class does, which seems to be the current trend. If they take another province in the future, they will be set. > [@](#): > > Is there any conceivable scenario where the ANC could lose a significant part of its 65% vote share? Severe economic hardship might do it, I think. > [@](#): > > Or split into two or more parties? It’s not so much the ANC itself splitting that’s likely (COPE is really just a small splinter group, not a split _per se_) as the ANC-CP-COSATU alliance splitting. Like I’ve said, the strongly leftist COSATU contingent really, really don’t like the corrupt, self-enriching demagogues like Malema. But on the other hand, the ANC “Youth” League is strongly in the demagogues’ pocket. > [@](#): > > SA will be a one-party democracy (like Mexico under the PRI) at the national level until one or the other happens. SA is not a one-party democracy _now_. Just because one party has a consistent majority does not make a country a one-party state. It misuses the idea in an obfuscatory fashion. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/280 "2011-06-05T11:30:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > SA is not a one-party democracy _now_. Just because one party has a consistent majority does not make a country a one-party state. It misuses the idea in an obfuscatory fashion. IMO. That’s why I called it a "one-party **democracy"** and compared it to Mexico under the PRI, not Cuba under the Communists. The PRI **could** be, and very eventually were, knocked out of power by an ordinary election. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/281 "2011-06-05T12:05:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s why I called it a "one-party **democracy"** But it’s not. “clear majority” =/= “one party” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248.md?page=15)