# Will South Africa go the way of Zimbabwe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248 "2011-05-09T09:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/382 "2011-06-13T06:59:02Z")
> [@Skelm](#): > > But also over 50.000 people are murdered a year. Most is crime, the farmers is a political aim. [Bullshit.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12123241&postcount=40) The farmers are targeted because they’re the only rural people worth stealing from, that’s the reason. Of course, the reason for _that_ is that the Apartheid system concentrated rural wealth in their hands, but that doesn’t make the attacks on them political in origin at all. Not even Terre’blanche’s murder was political. ---
**Author:** ![Saffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saffer/32/6440_2.png) [@Saffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saffer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/383 "2011-06-21T13:22:46Z")
Just popping in to point out that Malema looks a lot more capable of influencing goverment policy since his re-election. > **[Malema: What happens now? - NEWS & ANALYSIS | Politicsweb](https://www.politicsweb.co.za/news-and-analysis/malema-what-happens-now)** > > Ryan Coetzee says the ANC can't be relied upon to save us from itself ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/384 "2011-06-21T13:54:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Bullshit.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12123241&postcount=40) The farmers are targeted because they’re the only rural people worth stealing from, that’s the reason. Of course, the reason for _that_ is that the Apartheid system concentrated rural wealth in their hands, but that doesn’t make the attacks on them political in origin at all. Not even Terre’blanche’s murder was political. It looks like, according to your study, that blacks involved in these murders (the ones working for the whites) suffered, but less. Just because some black people were the victims does not mean the perpetrators weren’t race-motivated. > [@Saffer](#): > > Just popping in to point out that Malema looks a lot more capable of influencing goverment policy since his re-election. > > [http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=241949&sn=Detail&pid=71616](http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=241949&sn=Detail&pid=71616) Hush now. Impossible. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/385 "2011-06-21T14:47:44Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > It looks like, according to your study, that blacks involved in these murders (the ones working for the whites) suffered, but less. How you get “suffered, but less” from “Not that Black workers aren’t killed, robbed or raped, because they are. In greater absolute numbers, if not proportionally (for murder - they’re preferentially raped, it seems)” and the numbers in that cite, I don’t know. > [@](#): > > Just because some black people were the victims does not mean the perpetrators weren’t race-motivated. The study makes it clear that robbery is the overwhelming motive, distantly followed by rape.: > [@](#): > > The Committee thoroughly investigated the motives for farm attacks, and especially whether there was an underlying political or racial motive. By far the greater majority of cases are motivated by a desire to rob or steal. Very few cases have political overtones. Once again - White people are disproportionately the victims of farm attacks because White people are (extremely) disproportionately the owners of farms. They appropriated all the wealth of the land for themselves. That this has placed them disproportionately in harm’s way is a result of that. It’s really that simple. > [@](#): > > Hush now. Impossible. 😛 Gosh, a top strategist and ex-MP for the biggest opposition party has nothing good to say about a member of the party in power? Colour me surprised :rolleyes: Do you take the Republicans’ views on Obama with the same degree of credulity? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/386 "2011-06-21T14:49:26Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > It looks like, according to your study, that blacks involved in these murders (the ones working for the whites) suffered, but less. > > Just because some black people were the victims does not mean the perpetrators weren’t race-motivated. Even in SA, is “race-motivated” always synonymous with “political”? ---
**Author:** ![Delon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Delon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delon)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/387 "2012-11-06T07:09:15Z")
Under white rule, racism was rife, white people had the best of everything and regarded themselves as superior than other race groups in SA. Yet, the country was a safe and a clean one to live in. The wheel had to turn, and let white people realise that they were not superior anymore. However, handing over SA to the current ruling govt., was a huge mistake. Obviously, the masses voted in favour of the ruling party, expecting freedom and all the perks and promises that govt. had to offer. However, it was proven at the beginning and 18yrs down the line, that the ruling party is not capable of running SA. I believe that the wheel will turn again and just as the white govt. had to let go of SA and now suffer the consequences, the same will happen to the black govt. The current govt. and the masses still prefer to keep one leg in the bush. That is why there are no logical measures in place, to make this country a remarkable one. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/388 "2012-11-06T10:14:06Z")
Is there equality for zombies yet? I fear that they are still spurned by wider society. People think nothing of screaming or even running away from them, and job prospects are bleak. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/389 "2012-11-06T10:20:56Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Is there equality for zombies yet? Please, not “zombies”. “Metabolically challenged”. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/390 "2012-11-06T10:33:30Z")
> [@Delon](#): > > Under white rule, racism was rife, white people had the best of everything and regarded themselves as superior than other race groups in SA. Yet, the country was a safe and a clean one to live in. The wheel had to turn, and let white people realise that they were not superior anymore. However, handing over SA to the current ruling govt., was a huge mistake. Obviously, the masses voted in favour of the ruling party, expecting freedom and all the perks and promises that govt. had to offer. However, it was proven at the beginning and 18yrs down the line, that the ruling party is not capable of running SA. I believe that the wheel will turn again and just as the white govt. had to let go of SA and now suffer the consequences, the same will happen to the black govt. The current govt. and the masses still prefer to keep one leg in the bush. That is why there are no logical measures in place, to make this country a remarkable one. There is no “black rule” in South Africa today like there was “white rule” during the Apartheid era. Apartheid South Africa was truly a “whites only” political system with Black South Africans being stripped of even their citizenship; so blacks could not hold office, they could not vote, nor could they move freely within the country. Apartheid South Africa was a tightly controlled police state which woven mass segregation and the denial of basic state services (education, health care, police, public works, etc) into it’s raison d’etre. The shift that South Africa made was not one to “black rule” but to “majority rule” (with full participation from all sectors of society); IOW it became a modern democratic state. In today’s South Africa whites are merely **one** of **many** state recognized ethnic/racial groups in the country, **not** the sole citizens/benefactors. You (unwittingly) paint a rosy picture of the past while misrepresenting the present. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/391 "2012-11-06T12:02:06Z")
Yeah, but a leg in the hand is worth two in the bush. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/392 "2012-11-06T12:55:03Z")
> [@Delon](#): > > Under white rule, racism was rife, white people had the best of everything and regarded themselves as superior than other race groups in SA. Yet, the country was a safe and a clean one to live in. …for Whites. 'nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/393 "2012-11-06T15:38:17Z")
> [@Delon](#): > > The current govt. and the masses still prefer to keep one leg in the bush. I should probably just ban you for this, but I’ll attribute this to poor word choice rather than prejudice and give you one more chance. I’m giving you a formal warning for this racist comment. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/394 "2012-11-06T16:09:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I should probably just ban you for this, but I’ll attribute this to poor word choice rather than prejudice and give you one more chance. I’m giving you a formal warning for this racist comment. WTF does that mean? Why is any of it racist? I just don’t know. Are these dog whistles or euphemisms? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/395 "2012-11-06T16:13:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > WTF does that mean? Why is any of it racist? I just don’t know. Are these dog whistles or euphemisms? “One foot in the bush,” i.e. half in the jungle. That didn’t seem very subtly or euphemistic or dog-whistle-ish to me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/396 "2012-11-06T16:50:17Z")
He’s probably not coming back anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/397 "2012-11-06T22:41:39Z")
Well, if they follow the same land reform policies of Mugabe it is not difficult to imagine it getting the same results. The comments by the radical youth leader Julius Malema are one thing, but I thought Zuma was a bit of a pragmatist. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/398 "2012-11-07T00:31:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “One foot in the bush,” i.e. half in the jungle. That didn’t seem very subtly or euphemistic or dog-whistle-ish to me. Oh, THAT bush… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/399 "2012-11-07T09:35:12Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Well, if they follow the same land reform policies of Mugabe it is not difficult to imagine it getting the same results. > > The comments by the radical youth leader Julius Malema are one thing, but I thought Zuma was a bit of a pragmatist. You’re a little late to the thread to be bringing up bullshit that’s already been covered here and elsewhere re: land reform. tldr: SA is different from Zim, even identical policies would have different outcomes, not that the policies are identical. And why are you phrasing your posting as if you hadn’t already participated in this thread? Hard to keep track of all the Africa threads you need to post in, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Delon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Delon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/400 "2012-11-07T20:28:40Z")
[quote=“orcenio, post:390, topic:581248”] There is no “black rule” in South Africa today. Are you sure!!! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248/401 "2012-11-08T00:48:26Z")
Yes, we’re sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-south-africa-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe/581248.md?page=21)