“Blinders?” Oh, I get it; you don’t think white/minority rule was a good enough reason for the “Rhodesian Africans” (and the rest of the World) to reject the government as illegitimate. I do (a government who clearly states that it’s working against your basic rights is illegitimate), but ultimately the exact reason why 95.5% of “Rhodesians” did not respect the authority of Mr. Smith is irrelevant.
If the US had 95.5% of it’s populace as “natives” to be forced onto reserves. Yeah, it’d be a complete failure.
You seem to have found a photo with blacks and whites. Are they South African mercenariness?
Yeah, and many South African Jews were active in the anti apartheid movement (and many still live there), but whatever. White isn’t as white does on StraightDope.
You act so callous towards these people, as if they aren’t human beings with lives and families who had homes and farms that they had lived in for generations. They aren’t “whenwes,” they are refugees, except because they happen to have white skin instead of brown, you see fit to complete dismiss all of their experiences out of hand.
Hypothetical Scenario 1: you live in a country with a top 25 per capita GDP and a 5% annual economic growth rate. 64% of your fellow citizens have red hair; redheads can’t vote, have average incomes 50% below those of non-readheads, and are routinely detained, beaten and killed by the police if they mention anything about politics.
Hypothetical Scenario 2: other you lives in a country with a GDP 20% lower than in (1), with a 4% annual growth rate. Everyone can vote, and redheads, though still lagging somewhat, earn only 25% less than non-redheads. The crime rate is 5% higher.
It’s apparently okay for him to be…um…well…to make blanket statements about white people.
:dubious:
(I don’t even know what ‘white’ is anymore.)
dude, I don’t know if you/we/whatever are projecting or are just being practical, but I think that to us, dying is the worst thing that can happen. everything else can be fixed.
How has South Africa failed at economic success, pray tell? I’d hardly call being 25th in the world failing at something. Or having the best-performing currency against the dollar, worldwide, 3 years straight.
You have this strange notion that you can throw out unsupported subjective observations as if they were objective fact, and that once you do the debate ought to be settled.
They were, or were party to, murdering subhuman filth, and they’ll get no sympathy from me.
I’m talking about the ones who left when it became Zimbabwe, here, not the ones suffering the latest farm thefts, who i do feel some small measure of sympathy for. But since you were careful about calling it Rhodesia, I assumed that’s what you wanted to talk about.
I’d prefer to comment on what he actually said, not your interpretation.
I’m not romanticizing the state of South Africa or Zimbabwe. They’re both fucked up. This stuff about ‘Rhodesia was stabbed in the back’ and ‘look at the picture of the happy soldiers,’ on the other hand, is clearly a romanticized picture of the past of those countries. The soldier comment is totally naive. It’s one thing to discuss the trade offs that have taken place. But the underlying idea is that oppressive colonial racism is acceptable because it’s orderly and the people at the bottom rung (supposedly) were doing OK. That doesn’t reflect any understanding of what those people actually went through. It reflects rose colored glasses and a little bit of backlash against PC liberalism.
I think you’ve pretty much established your credentials here. Thanks for that post. It sums up your outlook very well.
You can’t control where you’re born, you know. You can’t control who your parents are. I don’t think that you are subhuman because you happened to be born black. I don’t think that a Rhodesian is subhuman because he happened to be born in Rhodesia. Like it or not, there were human beings born into Rhodesian society who were not oppressing anyone, they were just trying to live their lives and work their farms.
The majority of people in the former Rhodesia are obviously just like you, which is why they’re complicit in white farmers being raped and killed. Us versus them. Tribalism.
just like you summed up yours when you started talking about “Rhodesia”
But you can control what you do.
I’m not Black.
Neither do I. Read for comprehension. A Whenwe isn’t just any old ex-Rhodesian.
By continuing to live unchallenging in a White-majority state, they *were *oppressing people.
:rolleyes:
Keep calling it “former Rhodesia”, it *really *changes my picture of you.
I like to think of it as “right-thinking humans against subhuman scum”, but then, you know very well I’m *not *condoning rape and murder. “I have no sympathy for racist whiners” =/= “I like cheering on racist murderers/rapists”.
So what the hell should they have done? Deliberately cut their own throats? You know damn well that nobody on earth is going to willingly vote against their own interests.
When you put quotes around Rhodesia, you are saying the country has no right to exist, that it’s not a real country.
I want to know if you feel the same way about the United States, which was built over the land of Native Americans who were pushed from their homes, driven off, and in many cases, outright killed.
Control of the ANC and the huge bureaucracy that helped crush the above.
Crime and rising AIDS rates. And don’t even preach about how well the government is handling it. It ignored AIDS for so long (remember Mbeki?). Treatment is so hard to access.
If one can’t be a super player in the global market (not counting diamonds that you don’t own anymore - rather unfortunate and should be remedied) that serves the population, you* should* have a degree of sustainability. The Swiss are truly remarkable. They have stellar literacy rates, great social programs and somehow don’t need to manage an army! Damn. But since most of us don’t have that kind of luck, your success is going to correlate with your global power. Do you know often I see South Africa on TV? Aside from movies, it’s usually around AIDs awareness week.
Dare I say economy? I think I already said that. But domestic economy? How’s that working out right now? Twenty five per cent unemployed? Yeah, GDP can be xyz percent or maybe South Africa seems to be doing OK on its dollar, but how is that sustainable? Look at education, poverty, crime, disease.
Lack of legitimacy on the global front.
Look, I’m one of those who think the reasons why America managed to be so successful in her first 150 years is because it grew (geographically) over time. But in South Africa, you’re talking about nearly fifty million people with a short life expectancy.
Is South Africa a failure? I’d call it a work in progress…one that may be on the wrong path. Donno. We’ll see what this government cooks up. But kicking white folk out isn’t the short answer.
You don’t seem to differentiate between one white guy from another. Kind of hard to call that enlightened, intellectual, or logical.