# Will that supercollider n Switzerland kill us all in Nov.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 28, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872 "2007-03-28T18:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![benny73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@benny73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/benny73)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/1 "2007-03-28T18:13:02Z")
November is when they’re going to “flip” the switch at CERN. A lot of scientists are saying that they’re “pretty sure” there won’t be a chain reaction at the atomic level (that would wipe us all out), but who knows for sure? I bet there’s going to be a LOT of interest building up just days before the big event. (How crazy it seems to take such a chance just because a few people want to know more answers about the creation of the universe, so they risk ruining it and us in their quest.) ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/2 "2007-03-28T18:24:56Z")
The simple answer is no, it won’t. Of course, if I’m wrong I’ll apologize the next day… Seriously though, I have no cite, but I seem to recall an angry letter in a science magazine a few months ago (Discover possibly?) from one of the scientist who had been interviewed and said he was “pretty sure” we wouldn’t all die. He emphasized that he had been **joking** , and that nothing would happen. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/3 "2007-03-28T18:26:52Z")
The story was bullshit when it was used over the RHIC back in 1999: [A black hole ate my planet](http://www.kressworks.com/Science/A_black_hole_ate_my_planet.htm) The recycled version for CERN is bullshit today. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/4 "2007-03-28T18:30:51Z")
That’s my pet theory of why we have not detected any extraterrestrial civilizations. All of them, at some point or another, said “What happens if we smash two protons together really fast?” And then, BOOM! Seriously though, the level of doubt regarding the safety of the experiment has been greatly exaggerated in the media. Everything we know about physics says the chance of a planet-destroying accident is zero. Of course, something we don’t know could prove our undoing - but you could say the same thing about any experiment. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/5 "2007-03-28T18:31:40Z")
Only one way to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/6 "2007-03-28T18:43:10Z")
In November, the Universe will be re-created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/7 "2007-03-28T18:45:19Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] That’s my pet theory of why we have not detected any extraterrestrial civilizations. All of them, at some point or another, said “What happens if we smash two protons together really fast?” And then, BOOM! Seriously though, the level of doubt regarding the safety of the experiment has been greatly exaggerated in the media. Everything we know about physics says the chance of a planet-destroying accident is zero. Of course, something we don’t know could prove our undoing - but you could say the same thing about any experiment. [/QUOTE] It goes more like this: “Hey, Brazzlemorf\*, hold my zgsytl\*\* and watch this” - Alien for “Bubba” \*\* Alien for beer ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/8 "2007-03-28T19:14:38Z")
We are doomed! Doomed I tell you! [From the horse’s mouth](http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Content/Chapters/AboutCERN/CERNFuture/WhyLHC/WhyLHC-en.html) (cern.ch): > [@](#): > > These are just a few of the questions the LHC should answer, but history has shown that the greatest advances in science are often unexpected. Although we have a good idea of what we hope to find at the LHC, nature may well have surprises in store. One thing is certain, the LHC will change our view of the Universe. Yes, our planet disappearing in a giant fireball would certainly be a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/9 "2007-03-28T19:26:16Z")
Earlier threads on our **Doom** at the hands of Physicists run wild: **2004:** [Lawyers Prevent Creation Of Black Hole–What?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=235870&highlight=rhic) **2006:** [“Baby Bangs” to be created in New Zealand; How scared should I be?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=389045) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/10 "2007-03-28T19:32:06Z")
If I read the LHC site correctly they’re dealing with energies of 14TeV which works out to 1.6x10[sup]-7[/sup]J. If that was completely converted to mass it would be a blackhole of 2.48x10[sup]-23[/sup]kg. I think that works out to an evaporation time on the order of 10[sup]-74[/sup] seconds if I did the math right… Who knows? I might be off by a factor of 2! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![benny73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@benny73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/benny73)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/11 "2007-03-28T19:42:10Z")
[QUOTE=Grey] If I read the LHC site correctly they’re dealing with energies of 14TeV which works out to 1.6x10[sup]-7[/sup]J. If that was completely converted to mass it would be a blackhole of 2.48x10[sup]-23[/sup]kg. I think that works out to an evaporation time on the order of 10[sup]-74[/sup] seconds if I did the math right… Who knows? I might be off by a factor of 2! 😉 [/QUOTE] In couple of words, could you please translate that to laymen’s terms? Thanks. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/12 "2007-03-28T19:55:35Z")
[QUOTE=Grey] If I read the LHC site correctly they’re dealing with energies of 14TeV [/QUOTE] Which is much lower than [the most energetic cosmic ray particle ever detected](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-energy_cosmic_ray)- that had an energy of 3x10[sup]8[/sup] TeV. If this collider were going to cause some bizarre particle interaction that would destroy the Earth, it would have already happened a long time ago due to a cosmic ray particle. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/13 "2007-03-28T19:56:14Z")
Let’s assume that the LHC will even produce a black hole when two particles collide. Well, the most energy the two particles can have is 14 TeV. That in turn means that the most massive black hole those particles could make is the mass equivalent of the energy (i.e. m=E/c[sup]2[/sup] which works out to roughly 10[sup]-23[/sup]kg. Current theory says that black holes radiate and so can “evaporate”, winking out of existence. Like anything with black holes the amount of time that it takes to evaporate depends greatly on the starting mass of the black hole. Assuming my numbers are right, a black hole of 10[sup]-23[/sup]kg (leaving aside the potential for that to actually occur) would last 10[sup]-74[/sup] seconds before winking out of existence. So even if they do pop into existence, they’ll barely have time to thrash their tails around and figure out what the whooshing sound is before they’re gone. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/14 "2007-03-28T20:33:39Z")
I thought that time was essentially meaningless below 10[sup]-44[/sup]s or so? Planck time, etc. Not even time enough for a whooshing sound. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/15 "2007-03-28T20:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Yes, our planet disappearing in a giant fireball would certainly be a surprise. [/QUOTE] To you, maybe. I’ll just roll my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/16 "2007-03-28T21:03:11Z")
There would, however, be some very clear indications to the scientists watching the results that a black hole had been created (for instance, black holes are allowed to violate most of the subatomic conservation laws), so such an event would still be hugely interesting to the fundamental physics community, even without an Earth-shattering kaboom. I can’t say strongly enough just how cool creation of black holes in this collider would be. And even if we don’t get black holes, we’ll still learn a ton from this collider: That’s well up into the energy range where, if nothing interesting happens, that will in itself be a very interesting result. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/17 "2007-03-28T21:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] In November, the Universe will be re-created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. [/QUOTE] I have always loved that line but can’t remember what it is from. Do you recall? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/18 "2007-03-28T21:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=Nic2004] I have always loved that line but can’t remember what it is from. Do you recall? [/QUOTE] [Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy](http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/2583) ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/19 "2007-03-28T21:33:46Z")
[QUOTE=benny73] In couple of words, could you please translate that to laymen’s terms? Thanks. 😛 [/QUOTE] “Look fast.” If allowed more than a couple words: “It will be very small, even by microscopic standards, and will evaporate in a time so close to zero as to make no difference. We’re in no danger.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872/20 "2007-03-28T22:25:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought that time was essentially meaningless below 10[sup]-44[/sup]s or so? Planck time, etc. Not even time enough for a whooshing sound. Didn’t see this before. If the models which predict the creation of black holes are correct, then we’ve been seriously misestimating the values, and indeed the significance, of the Planck scales. But no matter which model you use, it’s recognized that the formulae for determining a black hole’s lifespan make some assumptions which badly break down at these kinds of masses. So one should take with a huge grain of salt figures like the 10[sup]-74[/sup] s **Grey** posted: It doesn’t really have any significance beyond “really, really, really short”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-that-supercollider-n-switzerland-kill-us-all-in-nov/397872.md?page=2)