# Will the ACLU Fight the "Fairness Doctrine" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649 "2009-02-20T01:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/61 "2009-02-21T05:02:59Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Huh? Post #37 doesn’t say that no attention is being paid to the subject of the Fairness Doctrine. It says that no attempts are being made by Democratic legislators to **reinstate** the Fairness Doctrine. What that post actually said was “there’s absolutely no push to do anything about the Fairness Doctrine.” Most would consider holding Senate hearings on it to be doing something, especially if this statement in the article I linked to is accurate: > [@](#): > > Asked whether it was time to bring back the fairness doctrine, she [Senator Stabenow] said “I think it’s absolutely time to pass a standard. Now, whether it’s called the Fairness Standard, whether it’s called something else.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/62 "2009-02-21T05:04:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > ? What attempts? What bills have Democratic legislators introduced attempting to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine? Attempts = bills? Who knew? Stabenow, et al. are attempting to and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/63 "2009-02-21T05:15:25Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Attempts = bills? In legislative bodies? Uh, yeah. Lawmakers attempt to enact a law by introducing a bill, and getting a majority of the other lawmakers to vote for it. How do you define “attempt” in the context of legislators reinstating a law? > [@Xema](#): > > Most would consider holding Senate hearings on it to be doing something Oh, I definitely think that Stabenow and a couple of others want to float some trial balloons on this issue and see if it might get traction. But I think **RTFirefly** is absolutely right to say that this is not something that the Democratic majority, much less “the GOVERNMENT” or “the left”, has any interest in pushing for. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/64 "2009-02-21T05:31:13Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > IF I ran the Democratic party this would be exactly my strategy. Give the right wing a meaningless topic that I have absolutely no intention of acting on to froth and rant and scream over. Meanwhile I keep denying officially that I have any interest in doing what they claim. While they destroy their credibility in the wider public by crying wolf over things that are not happening, I can get the rest of my agenda through and their credibility crumbles. If only. If the subject ever comes up again, Rush, et al., will claim that that Real Americans followed their stalwart leadership in pressuring their representatives to allow their marginalized voices to remain free. That’s how the echo chamber works. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/65 "2009-02-21T13:02:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Lawmakers attempt to enact a law by introducing a bill, and getting a majority of the other lawmakers to vote for it. It’s not unheard-of that there be a lead-up to the actual introduction of a bill, involving publicity, persuasion, hearings, generation of media interest, etc. - comes under the heading of politicing. Indeed, it’s often frowned on to introduce a bill without this sort of preparation. > [@](#): > > I think **RTFirefly** is absolutely right to say that this is not something that the Democratic majority, much less “the GOVERNMENT” or “the left”, has any interest in pushing for. He said it in an overly broad way that appears to be factually incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/66 "2009-02-21T13:15:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, but you indicated you intend to disregard whatever Obama says even though he’d have to approve the bill. For whatever reason. No I didn’t … I simply gave an example of a very significant instance when he said one thing and did little to follow thru on it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/67 "2009-02-21T14:23:50Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > What that post actually said was “there’s absolutely no push to do anything about the Fairness Doctrine.” You’re right. I amend that to “no more than a trivial amount of push.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/68 "2009-02-21T19:43:50Z")
**Starving Artist** , by the standards you’re using, you yourself are attempting to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine. After all, you’re currently engaged in a discussion as to whether it’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/69 "2009-02-21T19:50:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Starving Artist** , by the standards you’re using, you yourself are attempting to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine. After all, you’re currently engaged in a discussion as to whether it’s a good idea. If Starving Artist is a US Senator or Congressperson, this is a cogent comment; otherwise, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/70 "2009-02-21T22:10:01Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > If Starving Artist is a US Senator or Congressperson, this is a cogent comment; otherwise, not so much. I agree with this. Even if this particular bit of talk is going nowhere fast, talk in a Congressional committee is still a few orders of magnitude closer to lawmaking than talk on a message board is. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/71 "2009-02-21T23:18:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re confusing the news with the overall network. The news is well balanced as it is on FOX. Everything political after the news is highly polarized (Hannity, NOW, etc…) Were you alive when the Iraq war started. All the main stations were 100 % in back of the war. Only recently have we found out the retired generals giving their opinions were working for Defense Companies. The left wingers do not have access to the radio stations. It is not about profits,. There are several left leaning radio programs that are doing well but the righties control stations and networks. They are not able to get access. What are the tighty righties afraid of? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/72 "2009-02-22T04:29:51Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I disagree. Freedom of speech includes the right to not speak. I see no reason a privately owned station should be forced to air something it’s owner does not wish to air–other than emergency broadcasts and such. The owner you refer to only owns the actual station along with its equipment etc. The frequency he is utilizing is owned by the citizens of the USA. He is merely leasing a license from the citizens and as such, can only keeps that license at the pleasure of the citizens. All of them. And, he is required to operate, at least to some degree, as a community service if he wants to keep that license. Communities are made up of a diverse group of people with diverse opinions. If that broadcaster is offering a product that serves the interests of only _one part_ of that community then he (or she) is not fulfilling his (or her) part of the bargin. That’s where the Fairness Doctrine comes in. It doesn’t censor or limit in any way what that broadcaster can express on his TV or radio station (other that things like limits on obscenity, decency, and some other standards which are determined by the “normal values” of the community of license which are covered by a different part of broadcast law), it merely allows for the members of the community who hold views that are not being presented by the broadcaster to have a fair opportunity to also have _their_ views expressed–at least periodically and in a limited fashion–on _their_ airwaves. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/73 "2009-02-22T04:50:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Dio, I’d agree with that if there was a monopoly situation. Today, that argument seems outdated with all of the available media options. The fact that media options other than broadcast media are widely available does not matter one whit. This is only about regulation of the PUBLIC airwaves. They are supposed to be offering a community service that services–at least in some small degree–the community as a whole, not just one part of it. It is is no way a violation of 1st Amendment rights because the broadcast can still say whatever he/she want to (with exceptions of obscene or indecent material). The broadcaster \*should \*\* just be required to offer a chance for opposing viewpoints to be heard as well. \*They _should_ be required to, but the Fairness Doctrine has pretty much gone by the wayside thanks to the greed of license holders and the lobbying power they possess and use to great effectiveness on a “corporate profits at any cost” Congress and a timid FCC. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/74 "2009-02-22T05:26:40Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > \*They _should_ be required to, but the Fairness Doctrine has pretty much gone by the wayside thanks to the greed of license holders and the lobbying power they possess and use to great effectiveness on a “corporate profits at any cost” Congress and a timid FCC. I agree, we need political balance on PBS and NPR. They have nationwide coverage at tax payer expense with no oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/75 "2009-02-22T05:36:44Z")
There already is political balance on PBS and NPR. It’s only right wing mythology that they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/76 "2009-02-22T06:51:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There already is political balance on PBS and NPR. It’s only right wing mythology that they don’t. HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH Good one. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/77 "2009-02-22T07:17:36Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > It doesn’t censor or limit in any way what that broadcaster can express on his TV or radio station (other that things like limits on obscenity, decency, and some other standards which are determined by the “normal values” of the community of license which are covered by a different part of broadcast law), it merely allows for the members of the community who hold views that are not being presented by the broadcaster to have a fair opportunity to also have _their_ views expressed–at least periodically and in a limited fashion–on _their_ airwaves. In effect, it does, though. By saying that whenever an opinion is expressed on a matter of public policy, the station then has to find someone expressing a contrasting view, that a big incentive to stations just not to discuss public policy at all. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/78 "2009-02-22T14:45:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There already is political balance on PBS and NPR. It’s only right wing mythology that they don’t. Care to lay out the journalists that are featured on PBS and NPR and their leanings to support your contention? ---
**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/79 "2009-02-22T16:21:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The fly in the free market argument is that they’re getting free licensing for the airwaves, though. It’s not really private enterprise if they’re getting a giant boost from the taxpayer. > > At least make them pay for the licensing. I’m not questioning your assertion, but where is the $20 billion coming from that the government is receiving from the DTV transition? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649/80 "2009-02-22T18:30:16Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Care to lay out the journalists that are featured on PBS and NPR and their leanings to support your contention? Watch it once and learn. Every single thing they cover presents the opposite side, sitting there giving their view with no pressure from the station or sponsors. You guys are so used to one sided reporting that you don’t know fair and balanced when you see it. Open discussions feature David Brooks and Mark Shields. Equal time same table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-aclu-fight-the-fairness-doctrine/486649.md?page=5)