# ...will the board consider explicit transphobia hate-speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 23, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204 "2019-10-23T23:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/221 "2019-10-29T03:07:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What is the distinction? If you say [racial/ethnic group] is bad, go ahead, hater. If you say you want to exterminate [racial/ethnic group] with the intent that members of [racial/ethnic group] hear you, that can plausibly be interpreted as a threat. The first should not warrant the attention of law enforcement (if it does, I’d say that was overstepping). If the second gets you arrested, I’m not going to shed any tears for you. As far as I know, the convention is that “hate” is an \*aggravating \*factor in judging crimes. Beat up a black person, it might just be assault and battery. If it becomes clear you beat him up mainly _because_ he was black, then I can understand the justification for charging you with a more serious crime. If you want me to describe some perfect formulation or test that defines “hate” and can precisely determine if it was an element in a particular act of violence… well, too bad. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/222 "2019-10-29T03:08:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > \*Hate \*speech or \*threatening \*speech? There’s a distinction. > **[Opinion | Those College Students Who Used the N-Word Shouldn’t Have Been...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/opinion/uconn-students-arrested.html)** > > They were guilty of vulgarity and ignorance, but “ridicule” is not a crime. It says in the article Connecticut has an anti-ridicule law. Which is even more ridiculous. Regardless, in the US, the state and its proxies such as public universities have no constitutional authority to punish free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/223 "2019-10-29T03:23:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/opinion/uconn-students-arrested.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/opinion/uconn-students-arrested.html) > > It says in the article Connecticut has an anti-ridicule law. Which is even more ridiculous. Regardless, in the US, the state and its proxies such as public universities have no constitutional authority to punish free speech. Well, it’s paywalled, so I only got a brief look at the headline, which I think said “Students who used the N-Word should not have been arrested.” Well… yeah, no argument here if that’s all they did. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/224 "2019-10-29T03:33:52Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > There is no such thing as hate speech. …from the registration agreement (that I assumed you agreed to when you signed up to the boards) : [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21288689&postcount=1](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21288689&postcount=1) > [@Bone](#): > > You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. **Hate speech** , insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. This thread and the opening post was all about whether or not the post that I cited fit the definition of hate speech **as defined by these boards**. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/225 "2019-10-29T18:10:40Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > You have to realize that there is at least one place where it may appropriate to correct people who refer to their adoptive parents as “mum” or “dad”: during a debate over whether to call adoptive parents “mum” or “dad”. > > This person you mention isn’t a jerk because he or she disagrees with adoptees. Neither does a person _necessarily_ become a jerk because he or she tells adoptees not to call their foster parents “mum” and “dad”. The person becomes a jerk because he or she tells adoptees how to address their foster parents at a time and place where it is absolutely inappropriate to do so. To then “follow adopted people around” and repeatedly do so only makes him or her even more of a jerk. You keep calling adoptive parents “foster parents”. This is incorrect. Foster parents don’t adopt the children they foster, they are part of the foster care system. They look after children without parents until parents can be found, or the children turn 18. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/226 "2019-10-29T19:22:19Z")
Are other uses of “real whatever” offensive? Real is used in many common contexts, such as real parents, real American, real racecar driver, etc. Even real men/women is used when it has nothing to do with trans issues, such as “real men drink whiskey” or “real men smoke the same cigarettes as me”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/227 "2019-10-29T20:43:58Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Are other uses of “real whatever” offensive? Real is used in many common contexts, such as real parents, real American, real racecar driver, etc. Even real men/women is used when it has nothing to do with trans issues, such as “real men drink whiskey” or “real men smoke the same cigarettes as me”. No true Scotsman? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/228 "2019-10-29T21:37:14Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > You keep calling adoptive parents “foster parents”. This is incorrect. Foster parents don’t adopt the children they foster, they are part of the foster care system. They look after children without parents until parents can be found, or the children turn 18. Right you are, sorry. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/229 "2019-10-30T05:55:00Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Are other uses of “real whatever” offensive? Real is used in many common contexts, such as real parents, real American, real racecar driver, etc. Even real men/women is used when it has nothing to do with trans issues, such as “real men drink whiskey” or “real men smoke the same cigarettes as me”. Turn that shit around. Aren’t the people talking about “real America”, “real men” etc… not pushing toxic, divisive ideas that cause a lot of misery (even within themselves) ? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/230 "2019-10-30T11:39:12Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > There is no such thing as hate speech. [\*\*So, what would you call this, then? \*\*](https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2019/10/14/pennsylvania-teacher-racist-rant-mh-orig.cnn) ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/231 "2019-10-30T12:49:34Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > [\*\*So, what would you call this, then? \*\*](https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2019/10/14/pennsylvania-teacher-racist-rant-mh-orig.cnn) A woman having a racist meltdown? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/232 "2019-10-30T21:01:19Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > A woman having a racist meltdown? …since you have popped back here: for the purposes of this discussion, can you acknowledge that you were incorrect to say that “There is no such thing as hate speech” when the concept of “hate speech” was part of the registration agreement you agreed to when you signed up to the boards? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/233 "2019-11-18T04:45:44Z")
So any reason we’re allowing this > [@Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/138): > > My wife and I are both in our 60’s. If God forbid something happens to her and I’m plunked back into the dating world, hopefully if the ads are “Women seeking men” or “men seeking women” there’s at least that much truth. I would hope that I could tell the difference between a woman and a Transylvanian…or whatever they’re called before we get to the dick-check stage:eek: * * * > [@Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/252): > > What. Are. You. Talking. About. ? Who’s ramming what down your throat ? > [@Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/253): > > With any luck, not a chick’s dick. 😃 * * * > [@Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/255): > > Very droll. I assure you I am in stitches, inside. Now would you care to answer the question **in earnest**? (bolding Mallard’s) > [@Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/257): > > Not that either. :eek: * * * We’re going to allow “contra positions” whatever that is, fine. Apparently we’re not going to mod Annoyed’s whatever the fuck without even a comment about it from the Pit mods because… idk… it was a political jab so therefore not transphobia or something??? But apparently now we’re okay with transphobic jokes, including an allusion to “chick with a dick” which is a slur on the level of “tranny”, and “Transylvanian” which isn’t a standard slur but is deliberately mocking trans people in a slur-like way, and just generally posting in the thread to make driveby transphobic jabs instead of meaningfully engaging with the topic? ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_Raygun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c67d28/32.png) [@Ronald\_Raygun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_Raygun)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/234 "2019-11-18T07:24:29Z")
I think the board is going to have a difficult time defining “explicit hate speech”. I’m trans, but I use terms which have rapidly fallen out of favor (MTF, GG, biological woman), and in certain circles would likely be considered a bigot or at least rather self-loathing. I think there is value in having to defend the assertion “trans women are women, trans men are men” rather than just accepting it axiomatically. That being said, I do think the mods need to crack down on, as **Jragon** states, “posting in the thread to make driveby transphobic jabs instead of meaningfully engaging with the topic”. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/235 "2019-11-18T07:28:05Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > So any reason we’re allowing this > . . . > > We’re going to allow “contra positions” whatever that is, fine. Apparently we’re not going to mod Annoyed’s whatever the fuck without even a comment about it from the Pit mods because… idk… it was a political jab so therefore not transphobia or something??? But apparently now we’re okay with transphobic jokes, including an allusion to “chick with a dick” which is a slur on the level of “tranny”, and “Transylvanian” which isn’t a standard slur but is deliberately mocking trans people in a slur-like way, and just generally posting in the thread to make driveby transphobic jabs instead of meaningfully engaging with the topic? I agree that the text jragon quoted is hateful. I can’t imagine any argument by which it isn’t jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/236 "2019-11-18T08:57:34Z")
Well, once again we’re in the same general debate about what’s allowed here. **Jragon** , thank you for your enlightening posts. I know how hard it is to come on here and face antagonism, and I appreciate your attempts to fight ignorance. There’s a very vocal segment (majority?) that dismisses anyone who complains about the speech someone uses. “If you don’t like it, don’t read it,” they shrug. Yet the objectionable remarks set a tone here, and looking the other way allows that. The question we–or at least **TubaDiva** and TPTB–have to answer is this: why have so many women/trans people vanished? And what kind of place will the Dope be when we’ve had enough and left? I have to wonder if it’ll be the kind of place Ed had in mind when the SDMB first went online. Somehow I doubt it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/237 "2019-11-18T14:19:38Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > including an allusion to “chick with a dick” which is a slur on the level of “tranny”, Or a sign he gets all his info about transgender from porn sites. Which seems to be the case for too many people. > [@](#): > > and “Transylvanian” which isn’t a standard slur but is deliberately mocking trans people in a slur-like way, Or a lame, tired, old Rocky Horror Picture Show reference. > [@](#): > > and just generally posting in the thread to make driveby transphobic jabs instead of meaningfully engaging with the topic? This, really. Unless he’s a total idiot he’s just being insultingly provocative for its own sake outside the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/238 "2019-11-18T14:28:25Z")
“Chicks with dicks” is A-OK, but one time I told Shodan to “piss off” (in context, we were arguing over the same point, and I said "piss off – here’s a bunch of evidence to the contrary). I admit that was wrong. Within 40 minutes, I had been told to “knock it off” by Bone and warned by Jonathan Chance. Yep – not even a note, even though this was my first mod interaction in years and years. Straight to a warning. Fine. That’s fine. But if “piss off” is worth a warning, “chicks with dicks” and “Transylvanian” deserve a banning. Or we could just ignore them, and point out that there aren’t any STATISTICS that show that Trans people left the Dope, so we can ignore the problem. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/239 "2019-11-18T15:00:42Z")
Oh, and yeah: though the OP case could pass as ignorant, but nonetheless an example of the arguments involved, the later one even leaving aside “what is hate speech” would ISTM be clearly over the line even by the basic Don’t Be A Jerk rule. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/240 "2019-11-18T22:56:28Z")
> [@Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/273): > > The tranny should assume that and know better. To discriminate in terms of accommodation or employment is one thing, a social setting is quite something else. IMHO of course. hmmmm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204.md?page=13)