# Will the choice of Paul Ryan as VP doom Florida for Romney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161 "2012-08-11T04:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/1 "2012-08-11T04:34:31Z")
I remember the special House election last year for old Jack Kemp’s seat became a referendum on Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan and the Dem won in an upset. Will the same happen in Florida? Can Romney win without Florida? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/2 "2012-08-11T04:37:07Z")
Romney cannot win without Florida. However, Romney wouldn’t intentionally commit political suicide, so there’s some reasoning behind this pick. I can offer a theory: Romney/Ryan has a plan to deal with the entitlement problem and the deficit. Ryan passed a budget. Obama has as yet not only failed to pass a budget, but failed to get a single vote for a budget since 2010. They may plan to campaign on, “Hey, you may not like our plan, but we have one and the other guys don’t. We are ready to lead. they have proved that they are not.” It may fail miserably, but I’m sure that will be at least part of the argument made over the coming months. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/3 "2012-08-11T04:44:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Romney cannot win without Florida. However, Romney wouldn’t intentionally commit political suicide, so there’s some reasoning behind this pick. I can offer a theory: > > Romney/Ryan has a plan to deal with the entitlement problem and the deficit. Ryan passed a budget. Obama has as yet not only failed to pass a budget, but failed to get a single vote for a budget since 2010. > > They may plan to campaign on, “Hey, you may not like our plan, but we have one and the other guys don’t. We are ready to lead. they have proved that they are not.” > > It may fail miserably, but I’m sure that will be at least part of the argument made over the coming months. You keep making this argument like it’s meaningful. The only way for Obama’s budget to get a vote would be for the Republican led house to put it up for a vote. For some unknown reason Republicans don’t introduce Democratic bills..It’s almost like they have created a talking point they want their supporters to use in any forum they can find. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/4 "2012-08-11T04:46:40Z")
Obama’s budget was brought up for votes in both chambers and went down unanimously two years in a row. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/5 "2012-08-11T04:57:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Obama’s budget was brought up for votes in both chambers and went down unanimously two years in a row. Cite? I remember Republicans playing shell games and trying to tack on amendments to actual bills that they claimed were Obama’s budget. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/6 "2012-08-11T05:08:32Z")
Dog-Torturer/Grandma-Starver 2012! Go Team! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/7 "2012-08-11T05:21:13Z")
> **[President’s budget sinks, 97-0](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/92352-presidents-budget-sinks-97-0/)** > > Republicans and Democrats unanimously rejected the $3.7 trillion budget plan President Obama sent to Capitol Hill in February. > **[0-414 vote: House clobbers budget proposal based on Obama’s 2013 plan](https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/110143-0-414-vote-house-clobbers-budget-proposal-based-on-obamas-2013-plan/)** > > The House unanimously rejected an alternative budget proposal based on President Obama’s 2013 plan. The senate votes on the budget as-is, the HOuse voted only on the bottom line numbers. But Democrats could have brought the full budget to a vote anytime they wanted. Instead, Democrats regard any vote on the President’s budget as a “gimmick”. Which infers that they believe the president’s budget is unserious. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/8 "2012-08-11T05:28:36Z")
Well, it didn’t take long for this thread to get derailed. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/9 "2012-08-11T05:31:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/163347-senate-votes-unanimously-against-obama-budget](http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/163347-senate-votes-unanimously-against-obama-budget) > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/218931-house-clobbers-obama-budget-proposal-in-0-414-vote](http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/218931-house-clobbers-obama-budget-proposal-in-0-414-vote) > > The senate votes on the budget as-is, the HOuse voted only on the bottom line numbers. But Democrats could have brought the full budget to a vote anytime they wanted. Instead, Democrats regard any vote on the President’s budget as a “gimmick”. Which infers that they believe the president’s budget is unserious. No, it means that they know the Republicans won’t let it pass and won’t debate honestly about it. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/10 "2012-08-11T05:36:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No, it means that they know the Republicans won’t let it pass and won’t debate honestly about it. That… doesn’t make any sense-- especially since this has never stopped, for example, Senate Democrats from passing something they know won’t pass the House. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/11 "2012-08-11T05:37:17Z")
This will give Romney a boost, no doubt, although near the end it will become evident that he should have picked Portman. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/12 "2012-08-11T05:37:52Z")
As I said, Democrats could bring it up any time they wanted. Not a single one wants to be on record supporting the President’s budget. And this is not a thread derailment, since it goes to the likely reason for the Ryan pick: He’s not afraid to lead where the President has steadfastly refused to lead. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/13 "2012-08-11T05:43:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And this is not a thread derailment, since it goes to the likely reason for the Ryan pick: He’s not afraid to lead where the President has steadfastly refused to lead. The OP was asking about the effect this will have on Romney’s campaign in Florida, and the thread veered off into a discussion of Obama’s budgets. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/14 "2012-08-11T05:44:40Z")
Because I stated a theory that the rationale for the pick is the ROmney/Ryan team’s superior leadership record. “We make tough, unpopular choices, but that’s better than just kicking the can down the road.” Or to shorten it to a campaign slogan, “Willing to lead.” ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/15 "2012-08-11T05:53:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because I stated a theory that the rationale for the pick is the ROmney/Ryan team’s superior leadership record. > > “We make tough, unpopular choices, but that’s better than just kicking the can down the road.” > > Or to shorten it to a campaign slogan, “Willing to lead.” You provided a rationale, but didn’t really elaborate on what effect this pick would ultimately have. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/16 "2012-08-11T06:07:38Z")
I posted this in the other thread but: [http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/24/barack-obama/barack-obamas-life-julia-says-mitt-romney-would-re/](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/24/barack-obama/barack-obamas-life-julia-says-mitt-romney-would-re/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/17 "2012-08-11T06:10:23Z")
Fair enough, joebuck. Taken at face value, this pick will be disastrous unless the Republican ticket can persuade the public that entitlement cuts cannot be avoided, and that dealing with it now is better than dealing with it Greece-style 15-20 years from now, when Boomers are most dependent on the program’s viability. If they fail to make that case, Florida will be the least of their worries. Democrats could win 40 states. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/18 "2012-08-11T06:17:13Z")
The response is easy: revenue. Focusing only on cuts is foolish. Then the meta-answer: compromise. Cuts _and_ revenue. Compromise is the territory pubbies steadfastly refuse to tread. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/19 "2012-08-11T06:21:14Z")
There are no proposals to gain revenue in significant amounts. The only revenue proposal on the table is to repeal the Bush tax cuts only for the rich. That’s $700 billion over 10 years, or less than 10% of the budget deficit forecast over those ten years. 90% of the savings have to come from budget cuts, or the growth fairy. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/20 "2012-08-11T06:25:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Democrats could win 40 states. Obvious hyperbole. I can name you 20 states that Republicans are almost guaranteed to win. Obama won 28 states in 2008. I’d like to hear which 12 states McCain won in 2008 you think will vote Democrat this election cycle 😛 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161.md?page=2)