# Will the choice of Paul Ryan as VP doom Florida for Romney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161 "2012-08-11T04:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/21 "2012-08-11T06:37:16Z")
Wow, this is a serious mis-step by the Romney campaign. The race used to be about the state of the economy. Now it’s about whether you want to end Medicare. The Ryan plan does little for cost control, while it yanks away support from millions of future senior, i.e. those 55 and under. This decision essentially sinks the Republican’s campaign. I am honestly surprised at the decision. ETA: What’s unclear to me is how the Rand/atheist issue will play out among the evangelicals. I’m guessing it won’t make a difference, but I’m not sure. Ryan is a huge fan of Ayn Rand: he gives _Atlas Shrugged_ to his staffers with instructions to study it. ETA2: OMG: A landslide for either candidate could imply a win of 30+ states. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/22 "2012-08-11T06:37:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There are no proposals to gain revenue in significant amounts. The only revenue proposal on the table is to repeal the Bush tax cuts only for the rich. That’s $700 billion over 10 years, or less than 10% of the budget deficit forecast over those ten years. > > 90% of the savings have to come from budget cuts, or the growth fairy. Finally someone is talking some numbers! Ok. Let’s cut our war machine. By a lot. Give nice raises to the men in the smaller resulting force though. And it isn’t the “growth fairy”. The correct term is “long-term investment in education”. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/23 "2012-08-11T06:41:37Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > ETA: What’s unclear to me is how the Rand/atheist issue will play out among the evangelicals. I’m guessing it won’t make a difference, but I’m not sure. Ryan is a huge fan of Ayn Rand: he gives _Atlas Shrugged_ to his staffers with instructions to study it. As far as I can tell Congressman Ryan isn’t an Objectivist-he’s Catholic according to Wiki. There are plenty of religious people who admire Ayn Rand as much as non-Christians admire Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or non-Hindus admire Mahatma Ghandi. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/24 "2012-08-11T06:41:44Z")
> [@Linden\_Arden](#): > > I remember the special House election last year for old Jack Kemp’s seat became a referendum on Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan and the Dem won in an upset. > > Will the same happen in Florida? Can Romney win without Florida? **adaher** , try rereading the OP as quoted above. There are some of us interested in discussing the questions asked rather than watch you derail another thread. Of the 19 posts, 6 are yours and none are on topic. SO… I suspect this could throw Florida back to Obama. I had pretty much written it off as being likely to go to Romney, but the threat of being able to play up the Medicare angle probably has David Axelrod jumping up and down with glee. I have no idea how popular Ryan is in Wisconsin but if the Romney “strategists” viewed this as a way to put the upper Midwest in play it strikes me as a dumb trade-off. Minnesota + Wisconsin + Iowa is still a net loss of 3 EV and I doubt Romney/Ryan will carry all three states. I suppose Ryan is more charismatic than Romney, so maybe that counts for something. Frankly though, I happen to have house plants with more personality than Romney and none of them got vetted. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/25 "2012-08-11T07:15:03Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Obvious hyperbole. I can name you 20 states that Republicans are almost guaranteed to win. Obama won 28 states in 2008. I’d like to hear which 12 states McCain won in 2008 you think will vote Democrat this election cycle 😛 If Ryan’s Medicare plans are as toxic as they could be, anything is possible. I know we’ve gotten used to close elections, but it wasn’t THAT long ago that Ronald Reagan won 49 states. It can happen today given the right circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/26 "2012-08-11T07:18:19Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Finally someone is talking some numbers! > > Ok. Let’s cut our war machine. By a lot. Give nice raises to the men in the smaller resulting force though. > > And it isn’t the “growth fairy”. The correct term is “long-term investment in education”. We already invest a ton in education and results are not improving much. No one anywhere in the world knows how to grow an economy, which is why you can’t count on growth. You have to deal with the budget picture as it is. if things end up better than expected, great, but the only responsible course is to figure out how to cut at least $4 trillion in spending in 10 years. Cutting defense should definitely be part of that solution, but entitlements have to be cut as well. Medicare has historically grown at an 8% rate per year. We could just eliminate the entire rest of the federal budget and only do Medicare and we’d still end up in a financial crisis in our lifetimes simply due to Medicare growth. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/27 "2012-08-11T07:19:21Z")
In regards to FLorida, why would Ryan’s proposed Medicare cuts enrage florida’s seniors more than the actual, real Medicare Advantage cuts due in October? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/28 "2012-08-11T07:23:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In regards to FLorida, why would Ryan’s proposed Medicare cuts enrage florida’s seniors more than the actual, real Medicare Advantage cuts due in October? Medicare Advantage works no better than Medicare. It just costs more. Do you know people that think spending more tax dollars on a version of something that isn’t more effective is a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/29 "2012-08-11T07:24:25Z")
As far as Florida goes, the Republicans had better hope that Pat Buchanan runs again to capture the Jewish vote. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/30 "2012-08-11T07:27:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Medicare Advantage works no better than Medicare. It just costs more. > > Do you know people that think spending more tax dollars on a version of something that isn’t more effective is a good idea? But what do the recipients of the benefit think? That’s what’s at stake here. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/31 "2012-08-11T07:27:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In regards to FLorida, why would Ryan’s proposed Medicare cuts enrage florida’s seniors more than the actual, real Medicare Advantage cuts due in October? Possibly because 75% of Medicare recipients don’t even use Medicare Advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/32 "2012-08-11T08:03:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If Ryan’s Medicare plans are as toxic as they could be, anything is possible. I know we’ve gotten used to close elections, but it wasn’t THAT long ago that Ronald Reagan won 49 states. It can happen today given the right circumstances. Anything is possible; that doesn’t mean it has the slightest chance of happening. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/33 "2012-08-11T08:13:09Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > This will give Romney a boost, no doubt, although near the end it will become evident that he should have picked Portman. I had no idea Natalie was interested in being Vice-President. I thought I read that she was a democrat, tho. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/34 "2012-08-11T08:13:22Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Possibly because 75% of Medicare recipients don’t even use Medicare Advantage. That’s still 25% of seniors affected by real cuts, as opposed to 0% affected by cuts which haven’t happened and won’t happen for those currently over 55. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/35 "2012-08-11T11:15:42Z")
No, because Florida is trying to work out a way to disenfranchise people who tend to vote early. Which are Democrats, diehards and African Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/36 "2012-08-11T11:19:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Dog-Torturer/Grandma-Starver 2012! Go Team! I’m thinking we’re going to see a lot of old folks thrown off cliffs (in commercials) in the coming months. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/37 "2012-08-11T11:31:11Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > No, because Florida is trying to work out a way to disenfranchise people who tend to vote early. Which are Democrats, diehards and African Americans. Early voting is a fairly recent phenomenon and not universal among the states or other democracies. It’s kinda weird to claim that not having it disenfranchises people, that it’s somehow become essential for democracy. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/38 "2012-08-11T11:36:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Early voting is a fairly recent phenomenon and not universal among the states or other democracies. It’s kinda weird to claim that not having it disenfranchises people, that it’s somehow become essential for democracy. "voting is a fairly recent phenomenon " too. What’s kind of weird is your knee-jerk defense of obviously partisan gamesmanship. To me, it’s obvious that Romney’s choice of Ryan (Slate says it’s going to be announced this morning at 9 AM) is going to kill him in Florida but for the elimination of many Democratic voters there. With enough early voters, voters turned away for lack of proper ID, etc. Romney wouldn’t stand a chance in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/39 "2012-08-11T11:50:28Z")
Whatever it takes to comfort yourself for the next four years… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/40 "2012-08-11T12:51:51Z")
Heh. As if Romney sobbing into the mane of his dancing horse won’t be enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161.md?page=3)