# Will the choice of Paul Ryan as VP doom Florida for Romney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161 "2012-08-11T04:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/41 "2012-08-11T13:25:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Cutting defense should definitely be part of that solution, but entitlements have to be cut as well. Let’s start by focusing on the wealthy’s sense of entitlement to low low tax rates and corporations’ sense of entitlement to corporate fraud, huge tax loopholes and etc. Medicare, ok, let’s put it on the table. But looking at only numbers and not effects on actual human beings is cruelly myopic. But look, it is only 12 hours and the one-sidedness of the GOP view is already grating on me. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/42 "2012-08-11T13:37:27Z")
Romney/Ryan Now Grandma is dyin’ ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/43 "2012-08-11T13:39:31Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Romney/Ryan > Now Grandma is dyin’ Bumpersticker! ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/44 "2012-08-11T13:46:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I posted this in the other thread but: [http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/24/barack-obama/barack-obamas-life-julia-says-mitt-romney-would-re/](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/24/barack-obama/barack-obamas-life-julia-says-mitt-romney-would-re/) This was the moment when Politifact jumped the shark. No, actually, it was when they named this their Lie of the Year last year ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/45 "2012-08-11T13:51:02Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Heh. As if Romney sobbing into the mane of his dancing horse won’t be enough. Come on. You know the horse is going to the glue factory once the election is over. It lost, after all. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/46 "2012-08-11T13:53:24Z")
There is no doubt Paul Ryan has a great head on his shoulders. He’s no Sarah Palin lightweight. But his personality reminds me of Dick Cheney/Darth Vader. He may be able to run circles around Joe Biden in a debate, but people will like Joe more anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/47 "2012-08-11T14:00:05Z")
Would anybody like to have beer with the guy who never, ever buys a round? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/48 "2012-08-11T14:01:12Z")
Let’s bring this topic back around to the candidates and Florida and leave the budget and procedural discussions to another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/49 "2012-08-11T14:04:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In regards to FLorida, why would Ryan’s proposed Medicare cuts enrage florida’s seniors more than the actual, real Medicare Advantage cuts due in October? Less than 20% of Seniors enroll in Medicare Advantage. 80% are still in traditional Medicare. So on a pure numbers game, what has been done affects far fewer people than what has been proposed by Ryan. I don’t think this was a good move for getting Florida. It is a good move to rally the Tea Party and have the “Establishment GOP” (Romney) make nice with the “Upstarts.” However, its not a moderate pick and while it may help turn out the base, I think overall it will move Independents left. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/50 "2012-08-11T14:09:40Z")
I’ll see your Florida and raise you Arizona. What the Ryan pick does is write off Florida. Those seniors do not want their Medicare threatened. Now the Ryanites tried to calm the waters by saying to seniors “we’re not going to fuck _you_ over, we’re going to fuck _your kids_ over when they get to be your age.” I don’t think that will sell, seniors know that Republicans hate Medicare like they’ve always hated Social Security. Color Florida blue, it’s over. Obama wins easily, and you can now put Arizona with its sizable senior population in play. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/51 "2012-08-11T14:14:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s still 25% of seniors affected by real cuts, as opposed to 0% affected by cuts which haven’t happened and won’t happen for those currently over 55. What makes you think that those over 55 don’t care about the future for their children under 55, but only about themselves? The very idea that this is a valid approach is pure class warfare. This announcement constitutes a surrender for the Romney campaign, knowing it means losing Florida among many other places. Let’s hope this is Goldwater all over again, part of the process of healing the party of its infection so it can become responsible once again. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/52 "2012-08-11T14:22:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’ll see your Florida and raise you Arizona. What the Ryan pick does is write off Florida. Those seniors do not want their Medicare threatened. Now the Ryanites tried to calm the waters by saying to seniors “we’re not going to fuck _you_ over, we’re going to fuck _your kids_ over when they get to be your age.” I don’t think that will sell, seniors know that Republicans hate Medicare like they’ve always hated Social Security. Color Florida blue, it’s over. > > Obama wins easily, and you can now put Arizona with its sizable senior population in play. People who are 60 or 65 today aren’t going to trust Ryan not to throw them under the bus in a budget crisis if the Republicans have enough power to do so. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/53 "2012-08-11T14:26:09Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > This was the moment when Politifact jumped the shark. No, actually, it was when they named this their Lie of the Year last year The reason it’s the lie of the year is because the Democrats’ ACA also ended Medicare as we know it. Democrats think that Medicare means public health care. THat’s not how beneficiaries see it. If the program goes from an open ended promise to one where costs are controlled, that’s a very different program from what seniors have come to expect. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/54 "2012-08-11T14:27:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What makes you think that those over 55 don’t care about the future for their children under 55, but only about themselves? The very idea that this is a valid approach is pure class warfare. > This announcement constitutes a surrender for the Romney campaign, knowing it means losing Florida among many other places. Let’s hope this is Goldwater all over again, part of the process of healing the party of its infection so it can become responsible once again. Responsibility means having a plan to deal with the entitlement problem. Show me the Democrats’ plan, and we’ll talk about responsibility. Are they going to raise taxes on working people? Cut benefits? Or cut other spending down to the bone so that we are investing in our past rather than our future? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/55 "2012-08-11T14:29:42Z")
At the announcement, Romney introduced the “next President of the United States, Paul Ryan.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/56 "2012-08-11T14:31:11Z")
You hadn’t heard? It’s the ultimate flip flop: We go from: Romney-Ryan to Ryan-Romney. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/57 "2012-08-11T14:32:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Responsibility means having a plan to deal with the entitlement problem. Show me the Democrats’ plan, and we’ll talk about responsibility. Simply let the Bush tax cuts for Romney’s class expire, and we restore budget balance. Let the rich pay at least as much as everyone else. Why is that not one of your options? And why do you think that’s going to be a good sell for anyone, including the over-55’s upon whose presumed selfishness you depend? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/58 "2012-08-11T14:39:37Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > This was the moment when Politifact jumped the shark. No, actually, it was when they named this their Lie of the Year last year Now that Romney has made ending Medicare one of the centerpieces of his campaign (by picking the architect of that plan as his VP), with any luck the Obama campaign will be successful at overcoming that lie and making people aware of what Ryan and the Republicans want to do. In spite of Politifact’s misrepresentation and attempt to make it the “lie of the year”, I don’t believe enough Americans are aware of it at all. Of course most of those who do are opposed to his plan to end Medicare, but it didn`t get anywhere near the attention and widespread understanding that comes from being the signature proposal of the VP candidate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/59 "2012-08-11T14:41:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Simply let the Bush tax cuts for Romney’s class expire, and we restore budget balance. Let the rich pay at least as much as everyone else. > > Why is that not one of your options? And why do you think that’s going to be a good sell for anyone, including the over-55’s upon whose presumed selfishness you depend? Um, because it only cuts the deficit over the next ten years by 10%. We’re $9 trillion in the hole. THe bush tax cuts for the rich will only raise $700-$900 billion. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161/60 "2012-08-11T14:42:45Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Now that Romney has made ending Medicare one of the centerpieces of his campaign (by picking the architect of that plan as his VP), with any luck the Obama campaign will be successful at overcoming that lie and making people aware of what Ryan and the Republicans want to do. > > In spite of Politifact’s misrepresentation and attempt to make it the “lie of the year”, I don’t believe enough Americans are aware of it at all. Of course most of those who do are opposed to his plan to end Medicare, but it didn`t get anywhere near the attention and widespread understanding that comes from being the signature proposal of the VP candidate. It is fair to characterize Ryan’s plan as “ending Medicare as we know it” IMO, but don’t start whining when Ryan characterizes the ACA as “cutting Medicare by $500 billion”. We can either conduct this debate under ultra precise terms, or we can use the looser language more typical of a campaign. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-choice-of-paul-ryan-as-vp-doom-florida-for-romney/631161.md?page=4)