# Will the Current Bad PR for Apple Come to Anything? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365 "2012-02-10T02:09:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/21 "2012-02-14T19:05:36Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > Yeah I’m not unfamiliar with the college-student Apple user. More than a few [Racket](http://www.racket-lang.org/)eers use Macs (which is the extent to which I rub shoulders with computer science, being a hobbyist and not a professional). I think that they’re transfers from Linux, though, since whatever version of the OS that’s being pushed is Unix-y. I agree that they’re transfers from Linux. But it does belie the stereotype that savvy users don’t choose Macs. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/22 "2012-02-14T19:11:41Z")
> [@MilTan](#): > > I agree that they’re transfers from Linux. But it does belie the stereotype that savvy users don’t choose Macs. If it were true, I wouldn’t have called it a stereotype 😉 ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/23 "2012-02-16T00:47:01Z")
For what it’s worth, [Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/15/us-china-apple-idUSTRE81E1FQ20120215) reports that Fair Labor Association officials’ first impression of Foxconn is better than the typical garment industry. A low bar, and they’ve only begun their investigation, but interesting nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/24 "2012-02-16T03:13:36Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > For what it’s worth, [Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/15/us-china-apple-idUSTRE81E1FQ20120215) reports that Fair Labor Association officials’ first impression of Foxconn is better than the typical garment industry. A low bar, and they’ve only begun their investigation, but interesting nonetheless. The top-comment on that article nailed it: > [@](#): > > This is, at best, a red herring and, at worst, a cynical attempt by FLA to obfuscate the real issue here. It was never that Foxconn had the worst working environment in China, it was that Apple (and others but, mostly Apple) had played lip-service to inspecting these plants all the while knowing that these conditions persisted and all the while happily made obscene profits off the exploitation of those who are less fortunate. This FLA announcement only tarnishes their integrity and claims of objectivity. > What conscientious Apple product purchasers want to read is that Foxconn and other Apple manufacturing plants have working conditions that are on par with their plants in the US. Also, I’d be curious to see if there’s a reason Apple waited so long so allow such inspections, considering the first reports I can recall reading happened way back in 05-06. ---
**Author:** ![BordelDeMerde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BordelDeMerde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BordelDeMerde)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/25 "2012-02-16T03:38:57Z")
Short answer: no. Their stock price broke $500 this week. That’s more than an iPad. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/26 "2012-02-16T03:53:16Z")
[Here’s](http://www.marketanthropology.com/2012/02/jig-is-up.html) an interesting chart. Buy low, sell high. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/27 "2012-03-16T20:59:56Z")
(Sorry for the zombie thread) Ira Glass just [retracted](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/blog/2012/03/retracting-mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory) his airing of “Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory” due to several mistruths in Mike Daisey’s claims. It appears that Daisey took some liberties with the truth, which Daisey defends as not being inappropriate for the original “theater” intent of his one-man show. :dubious: While this doesn’t negate the real problems with working conditions in China, I do advocate the calling of bullshit whenever it does happen and the bold issuing of retractions when news outlets get a story wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/28 "2012-03-16T21:55:20Z")
Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/29 "2012-03-16T22:47:19Z")
Yeah, that sounded like a pretty painful retraction. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/30 "2012-03-18T01:18:19Z")
Note that _only_\* TAL\*\* retracted.\* Daisey stands by every word as “the tools of the theater.” Personally, I think he and _TAL_ made a big mistake thinking that this particular one-person dramatic monologue belonged on the program, even though it’s a program made up of one-person dramatic monologues. This was just journalistic enough that it didn’t belong on radio - at least not without some disclaimers that would have badly blunted its impact. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/31 "2012-03-18T01:33:09Z")
So far as I am concerned, it doesn’t belong on teh stage as well, without clear disclaimers. If it walks like a claim of fact and qucks like a claim of fact, you should have to adhere to the standards of factual reporting, or make it clear at what points you are deviating from it. I heard an interview with John d’Agata, whose “Lifespan of a Fact” argues that essays don’t have to be factual and the whole time I listened I wanted to punch him. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/32 "2012-03-18T01:38:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So far as I am concerned, it doesn’t belong on teh stage as well, without clear disclaimers. Well, [now it does. > [@](#): > > Mike Daisey, the off-Broadway performer who admitted that he made up parts of his one-man show about Apple products being made in Chinese sweatshops, has cut questionable sections from the monologue and **added a prologue explaining the controversy**. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_APPLE\_THEATER\_CRITIC?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-03-17-21-18-36](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_APPLE_THEATER_CRITIC?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-03-17-21-18-36)) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/33 "2012-03-18T02:12:28Z")
Well, that’s good news. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/34 "2012-03-18T02:52:46Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > Yeah, that sounded like a pretty painful retraction. Probably some guys in nice suits showed up and asked them if they would like a meeting with Steve. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/35 "2012-03-18T06:24:48Z")
What is up with the conflicting reports? The President of the Fair Labor Association initially said that the conditions were decent. Now, the FLA is saying that major violations were found. The Wired report, which arguably started this entire debacle, said that the working conditions were decent, if boring and mundane. The hidden cameras of ABC News tell a story of horrible living conditions and working conditions. Who’s right, and who’s wrong? Or does the Foxconn factory have a split personality? ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/36 "2012-03-18T06:50:52Z")
One more thing: does “corporate altruism” come off as an oxymoron? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/37 "2012-03-18T15:02:30Z")
After having listened to TAL today, all I have to say is that I will not be going to see any of Diasey’s stage performances. The guy is a douche. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/38 "2012-03-18T16:21:43Z")
Yeah, he kind of is. Basically he’s a zealous theater geek, and kind of sanctimonious when he’s not obviously acting. He is at his best when he is presenting [good and legitimate critiques](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoXf5u6_Gw0) of the way we do theater in the USA - which are intermittently hilarious, besides being the kind of things nice people in the business don’t talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/39 "2012-03-19T22:42:18Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Yeah, he kind of is. Basically he’s a zealous theater geek, and kind of sanctimonious when he’s not obviously acting. He is at his best when he is presenting [good and legitimate critiques](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoXf5u6_Gw0) of the way we do theater in the USA - which are intermittently hilarious, besides being the kind of things nice people in the business don’t talk about. I don’t understand how being a “theatre geek” means he becomes incapable of telling the real world apaart from his imagination? The retracction episode was basically Glass asking him in 6 different ways: “We asked you whether this shit is true, you point blank told us that it was and now you’re saying it isn’t, so basically you lied to us the first time?” and Daisey saying “Yep, pretty much”. I don’t even understand the entertainment value of this "one man show’ at all. Basically he recounts a trip he made to China and some interviews he did with workers, that he all just fucking made up? That sounds like an amazing night out. Maybe I should do a one man show where I dramatically read Citigroup’s annual report, with the disclaimer that all the numbers are made up and there is in fact no useful information here? How do you think that will “connect with my audience”? what in the christ 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365/40 "2012-03-19T22:57:26Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I don’t understand how being a “theatre geek” means he becomes incapable of telling the real world apaart from his imagination? Not incapable, exactly. More like so what, because This Is Theater. Like any geek, he reveres his specialty. Sometimes too much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-current-bad-pr-for-apple-come-to-anything/612365.md?page=3)