# Will the GOP (inadvertently) destroy itself to stop Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 12, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963 "2016-04-12T02:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/21 "2016-04-12T12:03:34Z")
One of the [doofier duckbills](https://i.imgur.com/THx4d0Q.jpg) who never gets invited to the cool parties. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/22 "2016-04-12T12:46:35Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The issue is that the GOP is under estimating the vast amount of rage from the lowest common denominator that Fox News has been stirring up for the last 20 years and which Trump has so successfully managed to harness. It may well be a case that cutting out the cancer kills the patient. Underestimating how? They’ve been deliberately stirring up that rage. They’ve channeled it. It’s a key part of their support base. It’s just that they haven’t publically fully embraced it out in the open. They use dog-whistle politics and otherwise talk around the issue, knowing what their base is saying, but refusing to be so out in the open with it because it’s crass and objectionable. They want to use that rage while pretending they’re above it. What Trump does is simply channel it directly. He’s not afraid of looking crass or crazy or being hated, so he can channel it in a much more direct way than they typically do. And those people love Trump because he’s finally talking about the things they’ve been enraged about for years. Trump haunts them by using the thing they’ve created but without the layers of obfuscation they’ve used in order to deflect the blame for creating it. They played with fire, and he’s the one who’s going to burn them with it. I still hold out hope that this is the greatest false flag/trolling incident in the history of politics. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/23 "2016-04-12T12:52:38Z")
Very well said, Senor Beef. Trump screams from his lungs what the others only hint at in whispers. The establishment prefers its hatred to be understated, the base has had enough of being exploited and is ready for someone to come out and shout it from the rooftops. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/24 "2016-04-12T13:14:34Z")
The GOP is definitely in a sticky situation. My guess is that they’ve begrudgingly written off the most fervent Trump supporters, as they’ll settle for nothing less. If there’s a contested convention, I expect lazy, token support of Cruz in an effort to salvage down ballot elections. It wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve already written off the general and just want to maintain control of Congress. One thing that I keep hearing about Cruz, though, is that he’s a big believer in data mining. He’s apparently gone to great efforts to mobilize voters with targeted communications. He may perform better in the general than I’m hoping (for the record, I want him to crash and burn so hard that future historians mistake the crater for evidence of a mass extinction event). The GOP is definitely in a bad situation, and given their leadership for the last several years, I don’t trust them to be smart enough to navigate out of it. Still, I don’t think the #NeverTrump movement is sufficient to destroy them, as it only works on those voters who don’t already want the GOP destroyed. > [@coremelt](#): > > “stolen” is the wording that Trump and his supporters will be using, and we all know that the adage “if you repeat something often enough (with enough media attention) it becomes true” is more and more relevant in modern politics. Trump would be screaming about having the nomination stolen from him even if he ended in third place, and his supporters would believe it. That’s a foregone conclusion unless Trump gets the nomination. > [@PastTense](#): > > Listening to what they say Cruz sounds like the oldest candidate while Sanders sounds like the youngest candidate. Oh man, do you think there’s some kind of Dorian Gray thing going on? That would explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/25 "2016-04-12T13:26:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m torn on the issue of a Trump nomination. On one hand, it would be beneficial for the GOP to get its ass handed to it in November and perhaps rise from the ashes. But I’m afraid what we’ll get is another round of “we didn’t nominate a true conservative”. So maybe what they need to do is nominate Cruz and get somewhat less of a beatdown and no longer have that “true conservative” crap to whine about. What makes you think that would stop it? The Republican base has much to be frustrated and upset about (and not all of it imaginary), but they channel that anger in ways that have nothing to do with the cause or the solution. They’re upset about billionaires using their money to get politicians elected, and their response is to try and get a billionaire in office and cut out the middleman. As a wise dog once said, it just don’t add up. I think some people just have so much of their psyche invested that they can’t lose the faith now. Suppose their nominee (whoever it is) loses this year. All those voters will have to look in the mirror the next day. They can say to themselves “maybe I was wrong about tax cuts, and global warming, and the Iraq War, and Obamacare, and gay marriage, and the Iran deal, and the Clinton impeachment, and infrastructure spending, and the threat from Ebola, and Obama’s birth certificate, and gerrymandering, and voter ID, and…” or they can say “I’m right and a real conservative would prove it!” Which of those two self-reflective statements do you think will be easier at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/26 "2016-04-12T14:06:08Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I wonder what kind of dinosaur Kasich would be? A Masturdon. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/27 "2016-04-12T14:50:54Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What makes you think that would stop it? The Republican base has much to be frustrated and upset about (and not all of it imaginary), but they channel that anger in ways that have nothing to do with the cause or the solution. They’re upset about billionaires using their money to get politicians elected, and their response is to try and get a billionaire in office and cut out the middleman. As a wise dog once said, it just don’t add up. > > I think some people just have so much of their psyche invested that they can’t lose the faith now. Suppose their nominee (whoever it is) loses this year. All those voters will have to look in the mirror the next day. They can say to themselves “maybe I was wrong about tax cuts, and global warming, and the Iraq War, and Obamacare, and gay marriage, and the Iran deal, and the Clinton impeachment, and infrastructure spending, and the threat from Ebola, and Obama’s birth certificate, and gerrymandering, and voter ID, and…” or they can say “I’m right and a real conservative would prove it!” Which of those two self-reflective statements do you think will be easier at this point? You raise excellent points and I don’t dispute any of it. I just think that if Cruz gets nominated and roundly beaten, they simply won’t be able to say that the nominee lost because he wasn’t conservative enough. Good question about what happens if Trump/Cruz get stomped. Will the right wing keep doubling down on a losing hand? Or will they consider if they went too far? I’m thinking double down, since they seem incapable of self-doubt or self-reflection. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/28 "2016-04-12T15:18:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Good question about what happens if Trump/Cruz get stomped. Will the right wing keep doubling down on a losing hand? Or will they consider if they went too far? I’m thinking double down, since they seem incapable of self-doubt or self-reflection. Yeah, once they get sucked into the gravity well of conservative infallibility, they can’t get out without admitting their fundamental principles are wrong. They will ride their dearly held beliefs like Slim Pickens on an atomic bomb, whoopin’ and hollerin’ all the way to ground zero. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/29 "2016-04-12T15:24:32Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > If there’s a contested convention, I expect lazy, token support of Cruz in an effort to salvage down ballot elections. It wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve already written off the general and just want to maintain control of Congress. That’s a strategy in and of itself: be the Party in Perpetual Opposition to the Bad President. As we’ve seen, it works pretty well for keeping Congress, though gerrymandering helps, too. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/30 "2016-04-12T17:04:28Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > All those voters will have to look in the mirror the next day. They can say to themselves “maybe I was wrong about tax cuts, and global warming, and the Iraq War, and Obamacare, and gay marriage, and the Iran deal, and the Clinton impeachment, and infrastructure spending, and the threat from Ebola, and Obama’s birth certificate, and gerrymandering, and voter ID, and…” or they can say “I’m right and a real conservative would prove it!” Which of those two self-reflective statements do you think will be easier at this point? No, it’s not going to be like that at all. People’s natural inclination when losing - be they liberal or conservative - is to say, _“We are losing, but it’s better to lose by fighting for what is right than to win by fighting for what is wrong.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/31 "2016-04-12T17:23:09Z")
I agree with the OP this far: If Trump walks into the convention with enough pledged delegates to take the nomination on the first ballot, and some shenanigans occur to change the rules and allow the delegates to not stay pledged on the first ballot, and Trump ends up not getting nominated, then the Republican Party will self-destruct. OTOH, if he gets a clean shot at the first ballot and doesn’t take the nomination, and loses on a later ballot, the party will come through relatively unscathed, because that would be just normal politics. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/32 "2016-04-12T17:33:39Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > That’s a strategy in and of itself: be the Party in Perpetual Opposition to the Bad President. As we’ve seen, it works pretty well for keeping Congress, though gerrymandering helps, too. That’s an anti-ideology. It’s hiding behind the barricade until the waves eventually wash over you. And they will. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/33 "2016-04-12T17:39:05Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I agree with the OP this far: > > If Trump walks into the convention with enough pledged delegates to take the nomination on the first ballot, and some shenanigans occur to change the rules and allow the delegates to not stay pledged on the first ballot, and Trump ends up not getting nominated, then the Republican Party will self-destruct. > > OTOH, if he gets a clean shot at the first ballot and doesn’t take the nomination, and loses on a later ballot, the party will come through relatively unscathed, because that would be just normal politics. Shenanigans or no, if Trump doesn’t walk in to the convention and walk out with the nomination, he’ll have his tantrum and you’ll end up with another powerless Tea Party-type group (well, not exactly powerless, just at best being able to play the spoiler). See my previous post on that particular anti-ideology. This is the first time I can recall that I’ve ever actually seen someone hold a party hostage. It still boggles me that anyone’s ignorant enough to want this foulmouthed crybaby in the most powerful office in the world. There’s stupid and there’s suicidal. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/34 "2016-04-12T17:39:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > No, it’s not going to be like that at all. People’s natural inclination when losing - be they liberal or conservative - is to say, _“We are losing, but it’s better to lose by fighting for what is right than to win by fighting for what is wrong.”_ Not always. When Bill Clinton addressed the DNC in 1992 he said, “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.” IOW, “Stop being so liberal and you’ll start winning elections again.” And the Democrats bought it. Which is perhaps regrettable in hindsight. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/35 "2016-04-12T18:08:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You raise excellent points and I don’t dispute any of it. I just think that if Cruz gets nominated and roundly beaten, they simply won’t be able to say that the nominee lost because he wasn’t conservative enough. > > Good question about what happens if Trump/Cruz get stomped. Will the right wing keep doubling down on a losing hand? Or will they consider if they went too far? I’m thinking double down, since they seem incapable of self-doubt or self-reflection. I think that many of these right wingers are intellectually incapable of the kind of self-reflection that would cause a better GOP to rise from the ashes. They’re not liberals, they don’t do introspection. There will always be another excuse. If Drumpf loses then the narrative will be that he wasn’t a true conservative. If Cruz loses then the excuse will be that he’s too establishment or some shit like that. I want chaos because it will be the best way to demoralize a significant portion of the GOP to retreat from the election process. The more right-wingers we can convince that the election was stolen or the GOP doesn’t represent them or the establishment is against the grassroots, then the more of them will refuse to engage in the process. Hopefully Dems will get Congress back then and correct some of the boneheaded mistakes the GOP has foisted upon this country. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/36 "2016-04-12T18:15:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You raise excellent points and I don’t dispute any of it. I just think that if Cruz gets nominated and roundly beaten, they simply won’t be able to say that the nominee lost because he wasn’t conservative enough. There will always be someone more conservative to rally the faithful next time, until the party platform includes stoning adulterers and annexing Canada by force. And probably even then. > [@](#): > > Good question about what happens if Trump/Cruz get stomped. Will the right wing keep doubling down on a losing hand? Or will they consider if they went too far? I’m thinking double down, since they seem incapable of self-doubt or self-reflection. The pragmatists will say “next time, we should work to elect the most conservative candidate that can actually win”. The True Believers[sup]TM[/sup] will say “liberals are destroying this country and we must fight them to our last breath.” Which of those groups do you think there are more of in the Republican Party at this point? ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/37 "2016-04-12T18:20:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There will always be someone more conservative to rally the faithful next time, until the party platform includes stoning adulterers and annexing Canada by force. And probably even then.The pragmatists will say “next time, we should work to elect the most conservative candidate that can actually win”. The True Believers[sup]TM[/sup] will say “liberals are destroying this country and we must fight them to our last breath.” **Which of those groups do you think there are more of in the Republican Party at this point?** **Bolding mine.** This raises an interesting question: exactly what percentage of Republican voters are rabid Tea Party and/or Trump supporters? That will figure closely into predicting the potential party damage from the #NeverTrump movement and any hypothetical RNC shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/38 "2016-04-12T18:25:49Z")
What the Republicans want is someone who has the popularity and audacity of Trump, without the immaturity, idiocy and trouble of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/39 "2016-04-12T18:25:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > No, it’s not going to be like that at all. People’s natural inclination when losing - be they liberal or conservative - is to say, _“We are losing, but it’s better to lose by fighting for what is right than to win by fighting for what is wrong.”_ I disagree. I think most people, in politics or not, when losing are more inclined to think _“We are losing; let us do whatever it takes to avoid losing regardless of the cost.”_ ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/40 "2016-04-12T18:53:18Z")
I think the Death of the GOP is a bit hyperbolic. It’s not going to be a good year for the Pubs, but they’ll be back. My crystal ball says: Trump will arrive in Cleveland short of the delegates he needs for a first ballot win. By the 2nd ballot, the NeverTrumps will have marshalled their forces and swung sufficient delegates to Cruz. Trump’s true believers will howl and sulk. Trump will sit out the campaign. There will be no 3rd party run…he’s not interested in spending money in a losing cause. The absence of Trump supporters, combined with Cruz’s incredible lack of appeal within the party, will result in a pretty serious drubbing in November. This will have a muted effect down-ballot, though – the Senate may come close to going Democratic. Republicans will lose a few House seats but retain control. We’ll hear less from the Tea Party in the next 4 years, and we’ll get a fairly normal 2020 presidential campaign from Paul Ryan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963.md?page=3)