# Will the GOP (inadvertently) destroy itself to stop Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 12, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963 "2016-04-12T02:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/81 "2016-04-14T02:50:25Z")
“The whole framework of the presidency is getting out of hand. It’s come to the point where you almost can’t run unless you can cause people to salivate and whip on each other with big sticks. ” Thats from Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 72 talking about George Wallace, who was also a racist populist and lost because of his lack of campaign organisation compared to the establishment candidates. Sound familiar? Found an excellent blog post comparing Wallace and Trump with many quotes from the good Doctor altered to name Trump instead of Wallace. [http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2015/12/18/what-would-hunter-s-thompson-say-on-donald-trump-george-wallace-and-fear-and-loathing-16/](http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2015/12/18/what-would-hunter-s-thompson-say-on-donald-trump-george-wallace-and-fear-and-loathing-16/) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/82 "2016-04-14T05:09:45Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I think the Death of the GOP is a bit hyperbolic. It’s not going to be a good year for the Pubs, but they’ll be back. > > My crystal ball says: > > Trump will arrive in Cleveland short of the delegates he needs for a first ballot win. By the 2nd ballot, the NeverTrumps will have marshalled their forces and swung sufficient delegates to Cruz. > > Trump’s true believers will howl and sulk. Trump will sit out the campaign. There will be no 3rd party run…he’s not interested in spending money in a losing cause. > [@Locrian](#): > > Not sure about this. Even if he doesn’t run on an independent ticket, I think the rabid Trump supporters will insist he doesn’t use his money-- let us trogdolytes donate and pay for your campaign! It’d be the biggest con he’s ever done, bigger than the university. Could he extend a letter of credit to his campaign (one that never actually gets cashed), characterize it as a “loan,” and pay himself back from campaign donations? Well, I know he _couldn’t_, legally, but is it the sort of thing he’d try to get away with? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/83 "2016-04-14T05:12:44Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > A thousand times this. The rules allow people to win elections after getting less votes, but only if it happens infrequently; if it happens all the time, then people are going to demand new rules. I think it’s somewhat more up to the personality of the individual candidates as to how willing they are to shrug it off. Trump doesn’t strike me as a shrug-offer, but what options he’ll actually have aren’t clear. > > I think it’s increasingly likely that Cruz will manage to game the system and be the nominee despite coming in a clear second place in terms of raw votes, originally pledged delegates, and state contests. This confirms my basic opinion of Cruz in that he is a deadly tactician, capable of winning amazing victories, but a horrible strategist, in that he often doesn’t accomplish his larger aims and seems to forget his enemies also have their own plans. Wresting the nomination from Trump in that way is going to confirm in Trump’s supporter’s eyes everything that Trump says about the Republican party, and trying to win a general election with that sort of fracture in the party is going to be a tall order even if you’re better liked than Cruz is. > > That said, nominating Trump is its own disaster, so I’m not sure that there is actually a good option for the Republicans here. Anything that hastens the extinction of the Republican Party is a good option for them. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/84 "2016-04-14T05:17:05Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Republican from Colorado here. > We have caucuses and because of the change in RNC rules, we decided that our delegates would be unbound and we simply elect the delegates or rather the delegates to elect the delegates. I’m not sure how they became bound to Cruz but I expect the RNC had some influence. > > Whether or not you support Cruz or Trump or Rubio or Paul, the way the RNC has taken sides against a candidate like they have is sickening. It is not their place to decide who the candidate should or should not be but leave it to the rank-and-file. This might just be my last election as a registered Republican. In fact, I’m looking into starting a minor party here after the election that caters to the Centrists in the state. Why aren’t you ALREADY in a party that has Centrists as their base? And yes, I mean the Democratic Party (even though, they could still get a little farther left to become closer to the actual CENTER). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/85 "2016-04-14T12:07:06Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Says the same guy who thinks social democrats are un-American leftists who belong in Europe. > > > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > > > Please quote the words that you’re twisting that brought you to that conclusion. Still waiting. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/86 "2016-04-14T12:10:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Anything that hastens the extinction of the Republican Party is a good option for . . . . . . everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/87 "2016-04-15T17:21:44Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Says the same guy who thinks social democrats are un-American leftists who belong in Europe. > > > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > > > Please quote the words that you’re twisting that brought you to that conclusion. > > > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > > > Still waiting. Since you’ve been around and I’ve given you ample time to provide evidence, it’s clear you’re just going to try to sweep it under the rug. In future, please refrain from throwing around unsubstantiated characterizations of me. I won’t let that bullshit slide. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/88 "2016-04-15T18:29:43Z")
Nah, let it slide. Dignity is too much of a burden to spend a lot of time on its upkeep. Besides, if you haven’t already, there is a fair chance that someone, someday, will call you “Dad”. At which point you will have to abandon dignity altogether. But the Dad abides. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/89 "2016-04-15T19:35:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Since you’ve been around and I’ve given you ample time to provide evidence, it’s clear you’re just going to try to sweep it under the rug. > > In future, please refrain from throwing around unsubstantiated characterizations of me. I won’t let that bullshit slide. Oh for Gawd’s sake, there’s plenty of times I’ve let people’s bullshit (including yours) slide without hounding people about it. But fine: > [@Feel the #extortion Bernie has planned](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/588): > > In Slacker’s defense, you have to look at it relatively. He’s talking about people who are pretty much at the left extreme relative to him (and most everyone else). I don’t particularly see that as an epithet. > > Realistically, if they want to have any significant impact at all, they have to stay as D’s. Or move to Europe? 😃 I kid… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/90 "2016-04-15T19:37:53Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Oh for Gawd’s sake, there’s plenty of times I’ve let people’s bullshit (including yours) slide without hounding people about it. But fine: What part of that joke did I not make amply clear was a joke? Really, give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/91 "2016-04-15T19:41:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > What part of that joke did I not make amply clear was a joke? Really, give me a break. And it’s equally clear that I was just giving a flippant response to your flippant equation of any sort of socially-conscious nationalism with German NS. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/92 "2016-04-15T20:52:46Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And it’s equally clear that I was just giving a flippant response to your flippant equation of any sort of socially-conscious nationalism with German NS. I’ve heard of a mid-century Austrian corporal who used to do the same thing, but his name escapes me. ETA: Maybe [this guy](https://www.flickr.com/photos/hliguy/8235005246)? Hmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/93 "2016-04-15T21:40:43Z")
It just [keeps getting better and better](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/republican-leaders-consider-rewriting-convention-rules-221972): > [@](#): > > The Republican National Committee is expected to debate a proposal next week that would dramatically shift the balance of power at this summer’s convention – and impose a new rulebook for selecting the party’s nominee… > > The proposal is the brainchild of Solomon Yue, an RNC officer and Rules Committee member from Oregon. It would replace the system used at Republican national conventions for decades, which mimic those used by the U.S. House of Representatives, with Robert’s Rules of Order, a design that’s often used to oversee civic and organizational meetings… > > While arcane, the change would have a profound effect on the convention. Under Robert’s Rules of Order, **any of the 2,472 delegates would have the opportunity to raise objections, or points of order, and interrupt the proceedings** … (emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/94 "2016-04-15T22:21:47Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It just [keeps getting better and better](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/republican-leaders-consider-rewriting-convention-rules-221972): > (emphasis added) Truly weird… There’s no way that plan is workable. Do you think Trump and cabal wouldn’t exploit that for all it’s worth if they thought they weren’t going to get the nomination? You’d have Mouseketeers’ Role Call of Trump-influenced delegates coming up with some BS reason to halt the proceedings. Filibuster in the convention? I don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/95 "2016-04-15T22:54:54Z")
Maybe if you had some compromise position, like that only the state delegations’ spokesmen could interrupt the proceedings, but I don’t see that changing the basic criticism of the GOP process. It would just transfer blame from the convention chair to the spokesmen, and on the other side would still be open to exploitation, though not nearly as much. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/96 "2016-04-16T00:48:37Z")
One good thing to come out of this is that Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, and a couple other popular firebrands of the angry right have thoroughly discredited themselves with the #nevertrump crowd. Trump is largely a creature of their making, and if he goes down he’s going to take them down with him. They’ll still have an audience with the nativist right, but they’ve lost whatever support they had from moderate Republicans. That’s a good thing. As for the difference between Cruz and Trump in the general election… If Cruz wins, we’ll likely see normal levels of Republican turnout, even if he loses. But if Trump wins the nomination, a lot of Republicans will stay home, and that will affect all the downticket races. A Trump nomination risks a Republican loss in House and Senate in a way that a Cruz nomination does not. Cruz is also much likelier to actually win in November, even though you’d have to say he’d still be an underdog to Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/97 "2016-04-16T02:54:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for the difference between Cruz and Trump in the general election… If Cruz wins, we’ll likely see normal levels of Republican turnout, even if he loses. But if Trump wins the nomination, a lot of Republicans will stay home This goes both ways. How many Trump supporters do you think will vote for Cruz? Especially if Trump is kicking and screaming about how the nomination was stolen from him? I’d be surprised if 50 percent of Trump supporters bother to turn up and vote for Cruz. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/98 "2016-04-16T03:05:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If Cruz wins, we’ll likely see normal levels of Republican turnout, even if he loses. Will we? Remember, Cruz is not **normal,** not even by Pub standards. He is not even human. Even Trump more closely approximates a human being (superficially, that is, apart from his mind being controlled by an extraterrestrial scalp-parasite). ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/99 "2016-04-16T03:17:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Will we? Remember, Cruz is not **normal,** not even by Pub standards. He is not even human. Even Trump more closely approximates a human being (superficially, that is, apart from his mind being controlled by an extraterrestrial scalp-parasite). Exactly, Trump’s supporters are not particularly religious, they don’t care about abortion or gay marriage. They’re angry blue collar workers mostly. Why would they vote for Cruz? Just because he’s GOP? That’s not how the Trump supporters are thinking. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963/100 "2016-04-25T05:45:48Z")
Since the NY victory I’ve seen more than a few articles on mainstream media suggesting that giving Trump the nomination is inevitable, including on CNN… Meanwhile Cruz and Kasich are still fighting despite both being mathematically eliminated from getting to 1237: > **[Cruz, Kasich join forces to stop Trump](https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/277463-cruz-kasich-unveil-coordinated-strategy-to-split-states/)** > > The Kasich and Cruz campaigns have a joint strategy for Oregon, Indiana and New Mexico. I think Trump is going to get within 50 delegates of 1237 and he can possibly win enough uncommitted ones over to clear 1237 on the first round. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that if it’s that close and the mainstream GOP does pull shenanigans to deny Trump the nomination then it’s going to cause a fracture that lasts beyond this election cycle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-gop-inadvertently-destroy-itself-to-stop-trump/751963.md?page=6)