# Will the latest Bundy clan actions bedevil the GOP candidates? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 4, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116 "2016-01-04T01:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/61 "2016-01-06T20:10:11Z")
I assigned no moral agency to either sides’ motives. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/62 "2016-01-06T20:13:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I assigned no moral agency to either sides’ motives. Okay, I read it differently, but perhaps I read too much into it. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/63 "2016-01-06T20:22:25Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Okay, I read it differently, but perhaps I read too much into it. Sorry. Don’t be sorry – I think you were right! > [@adaher](#): > > I assigned no moral agency to either sides’ motives. Wanting “heads smashed for the PR” has a pretty negative moral connotation about their motives. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/64 "2016-01-06T20:27:56Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Okay, I read it differently, but perhaps I read too much into it. Sorry. No need to apologize. What I did try to say is that both sides’ tactics are designed to elicit a certain response from authorities. The Bundys don’t want to be martyrs, they want to stare the government down. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/65 "2016-01-06T20:29:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Don’t be sorry – I think you were right! > Wanting “heads smashed for the PR” has a pretty negative moral connotation about their motives. I don’t believe so. It’s a perfectly reasonable thing to do if you think the police are brutal thugs. Provoke them into proving it. Getting arrested multiple times for trespass is just what professional liberal protesters do. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/66 "2016-01-06T21:38:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They are none of those things. and they aren’t murderous psychopaths because they don’t intend to kill anyone unless armed men with guns try to come and threaten them. They took no hostages, they aren’t planning an armed revolt. > > It’s an armed sit-in. There is no such thing as an “armed sit-in” That’s like having an armed love-in. This is people being given an order by police and not obeying, when they are armed to boot. This is a potentially dangerous situation, which requires them to be arrested. An arrest is not “armed men with guns trying to come and threaten them” Threaten them with what? Arrest? The requirement to obey a lawful order? Going home to their wives? From your statement you are saying that they are going to shoot it out rather than be arrested. Compare it to Sandra Bland case. Were you one of the ones arguing that she disobeyed police? What about Tamir Rice? Didn’t he “fail to put his hands up” (After they gave up on “he failed to put the gun down” when it was seen to be liability proving) The hypocrisy cannot be measured. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/67 "2016-01-07T00:00:58Z")
From my facebook feed: “We need a total and complete shutdown of white people entering the United States until Congress can figure out what the hell is going on in Oregon.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/68 "2016-01-07T01:50:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t believe so. It’s a perfectly reasonable thing to do if you think the police are brutal thugs. Provoke them into proving it. **Getting arrested multiple times for trespass is just what professional liberal protesters do**. Do you have a cite for the bolded part, including a list of people who are “professional liberal protesters”? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/69 "2016-01-07T04:38:22Z")
Cindy Sheehan. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/70 "2016-01-07T04:44:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Cindy Sheehan. Ooh, a name. That’s impressive. Explain. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/71 "2016-01-07T04:57:38Z")
[![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX7V-BdWMAQi91A.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX7V-BdWMAQi91A.jpg) > **[The Internet Trolled The Oregon Bundy Militia After They Begged For Tasty Snacks](https://uproxx.com/culture/bundy-militia-snack-request-reactions/)** > > Who settles in ’for years’ without packing snacks? You got to love this. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/72 "2016-01-07T05:02:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Cindy Sheehan. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! That’s the best you can do? One name and no cite for the actual claim you made about “Getting arrested multiple times for trespass is just what professional liberal protesters do”? Hell, Cindy Sheehan doesn’t even support the contention you made. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/73 "2016-01-07T05:09:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! That’s the best you can do? One name and no cite for the actual claim you made about “Getting arrested multiple times for trespass is just what professional liberal protesters do”? > > Hell, Cindy Sheehan doesn’t even support the contention you made. Aaaaahh…Ummmmmmmmmm… SAUL ALINSKY !!! Yeah, yeah that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/74 "2016-01-07T05:53:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ousting them will cost the lives of federal law enforcement personnel. Methinks you overestimate their combat ability, especially vis-à-vis real trained professionals versus some yahoos. A couple of snipers is all that is needed to prevent the loss of federal law enforcement personnel. Please note that I’m NOT advocating for such a response. But, there is trespass on federal land with folks that are armed and clearly threatening to use their firearms in “certain situations”. (Not to mention that these “nutjobs” seem to think that the federal lands should be grazed to death, clear cut of trees and then strip mined for their or their “interests” benefit. Just does not compute for me.) YMMV, but I would give fair warning (and all involved should be arrested if that’s what the law calls for alleged trespassers), then shut off power and access. Let 'em come out, surrender and have their day in court. Again, if these are the “militia” that the 2nd references, IMHO the NRA should be concerned… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/75 "2016-01-07T17:39:01Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX7V-BdWMAQi91A.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX7V-BdWMAQi91A.jpg) > > [Internet Reactions To Bundy Militia Snack Request](http://uproxx.com/news/bundy-militia-snack-request-reactions/) > > You got to love this. Many funny comments in there, but this is my favourite so far: > [@](#): > > Before you make fun, let us remember that even the Minutemen of Lexington/Concord needed the Royal Mail service to send snacks. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/76 "2016-01-08T04:24:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They are armed and know how to use their weapons. Unless we’re willing to destroy the building, or they don’t have the stomach for an armed confrontation and are just talking big, there’s no way there won’t be law enforcement casualties. So you concede they are either terrorists, willing to kill government officials to continue their unlawful occupation or they are little weenies with big guns. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/77 "2016-01-08T04:42:56Z")
Terrorists terrorize civilians. Anti-government militants are not terrorists. You’re muddling the meaning of the word for political purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/78 "2016-01-08T04:49:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Terrorists terrorize civilians. Anti-government militants are not terrorists. You’re muddling the meaning of the word for political purposes. So when someone blows up a marine barracks, or detonates a car bomb at a checkpoint, not terrorism? When Nidal Hassan shot up some soldiers, not terrorism? I don’t think the GOP agrees with you. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/79 "2016-01-08T04:52:15Z")
The GOP has never been above misusing the term terrorist to describe actions that are not really terrorism. That being said, applying the term to people who have not killed anyone and made sure they took the building when it was empty is even more of a stretch. Especially since their goal is not death and mayhem, but for the government to back down. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116/80 "2016-01-08T04:59:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The GOP has never been above misusing the term terrorist to describe actions that are not really terrorism. You really should stop voting for such varlets. > [@](#): > > That being said, applying the term to people who have not killed anyone and made sure they took the building when it was empty is even more of a stretch. Especially since their goal is not death and mayhem, but for the government to back down. A group of men trying to change laws by breaking in somewhere and using weapons to try to intimidate the government into non-action \*is \*mayhem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-latest-bundy-clan-actions-bedevil-the-gop-candidates/742116.md?page=5)