# Will the map or flag of the USA ever change again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478 "2010-04-09T01:11:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/1 "2010-04-09T01:11:18Z")
The last real change to the map of the continental US was the admission of New Mexico and Arizona as states in 1912. Alaska and Hawaii’s admissions in 1959 changed the flag a bit, but for my lifetime (I’m 43) and the lifetime of more than 200 million other Americans the map of the USA and the flag have been static. (Sure there have been minor changes to state maps- a couple of cities have gotten big enough to show up on national maps perhaps, and a few new lakes, but I’m talking state lines and borders and the number states.) Do you think that either the map or the flag will ever change again? If so, which do you think is most likely? -The admission of Puerto Rico (or of Guam, American Samoa, or the U.S.V.I.) as a state? -The division of Texas into multiple states? -The secession of NYC from the state of NY? -The representation of the territories on the flag? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/2 "2010-04-09T01:17:36Z")
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of admitting one or more new states. Texas ain’t gonna get split up. Don’t really see NYC seceding, or territories being represented on the flag. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/3 "2010-04-09T01:20:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you think that either the map or the flag will ever change again? If so, which do you think is most likely? I’d have to say that the map is unlikely to change in my lifetime (I’m, um, 50 something ;)), but if it does change, I think that the only slim chance would be that Puerto Rico would become a state. But I think that this is VERY unlikely. > [@](#): > > -The admission of Puerto Rico (or of Guam, American Samoa, or the U.S.V.I.) as a state? I believe that all of the above are content to stay territorial possessions, instead of going through the hassle of becoming full states. IIRC, all of them were asked (and I believe the residents voted) if A) they wanted to stay as territories in the US and B) if they wanted to become full states. I think that all of them said yes to A but no to B. > [@](#): > > -The division of Texas into multiple states? I can’t see that ever happening. > [@](#): > > -The secession of NYC from the state of NY? Again, I don’t see this as even remotely likely. > [@](#): > > -The representation of the territories on the flag? Nope. If I were to wildly speculate, then I suppose that if Mexico goes completely tits up, it’s possible (in the same way that it’s possible we’ll develop FTL travel in my lifetime…or ever) that some of it’s border states might request annexation…and that the US would annex them into the union as potential new states. Going even further into the realm of sci-fi, I suppose that, after the collapse of the European Union due to massive and unsustainable social spending, they might request annexation as new states in the union as well… (ok, I couldn’t really keep a straight face for those last two) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/4 "2010-04-09T01:59:57Z")
Those fifty stars? Replaced by a maple leaf. You watch. It’ll happen. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/5 "2010-04-09T02:03:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Those fifty stars? Replaced by a maple leaf. You watch. It’ll happen. I for one welcome our new socialized healthcare enjoying hockey playing overlords, and propose we give them the Pittsburgh Penguins as an offering. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/6 "2010-04-09T02:10:00Z")
Ever? Sure it will. Nothing stays the same for long, especially national borders. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/7 "2010-04-09T02:16:02Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > -The admission of Puerto Rico (or of Guam, American Samoa, or the U.S.V.I.) as a state? > > -The division of Texas into multiple states? > > -The secession of NYC from the state of NY? > > -The representation of the territories on the flag? 1, yes, PR can _pretty much_ become a State when it wants to. They have it good being a Territory, however, so they don’t want to change now. I’d give this a 33% chance in our lifetime. 1. No more likely than Rhode Island splitting, and just as legal. 2. Never. 3. Unlikely, but not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/8 "2010-04-09T02:21:31Z")
I think the only thing that could change the map now would be massive coastal flooding from global climate change. But if I know this country, we’ll spend quadrillions of dollars building levees around all of Florida rather than move to higher ground. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/9 "2010-04-09T02:49:38Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I believe that all of the above are content to stay territorial possessions, instead of going through the hassle of becoming full states. IIRC, all of them were asked (and I believe the residents voted) if A) they wanted to stay as territories in the US and B) if they wanted to become full states. I think that all of them said yes to A but no to B. Puerto Ricans have shifted recently from a previously very stable (though slight) plurality favoring remaining a territory to a significant majority favoring statehood, [if a 2008 poll by newspaper El Nuevo Dia is accurate.](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/06/exit-poll-hints-at-big-clinton-win-in.html) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/10 "2010-04-09T02:52:31Z")
Border disputes between the states are not unheard of. There was recently [a disagreement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piscataqua_River_border_dispute) between NH and Maine over which state a certain Island is in. There’s no reason two states couldn’t agree to move their border, or that a decision made in the courts couldn’t be overturned. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/11 "2010-04-09T04:02:08Z")
You forgot one other possibility; statehood for the District of Columbia. Unlikely but not impossible. And it would change the flag and the map of the continental United States. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/12 "2010-04-09T04:02:59Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I for one welcome our new socialized healthcare enjoying hockey playing overlords, and propose we give them the Pittsburgh Penguins as an offering. Bullshit. We’ll trade them all our hockey teams for beer. Lots of beer. And a \*Forever Knight \*Boxed Set, with a better finale that leaves room for a movie or three. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/13 "2010-04-09T04:07:12Z")
Statehood for PR or DC is possible, I guess. I don’t know where your other guesses for possible changes come from, and they don’t sound likely. But the general answer is, _of course_ the “map” will change. You don’t really think the United States of America will endure _forever_, do you? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/14 "2010-04-09T04:15:40Z")
I think Cuba will eventually become a US state. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/15 "2010-04-09T04:20:59Z")
Come to think of it, there’s a lot of practically empty territory to the north we could settle. **Some** aborigines, I’ve heard, but we can always put them on reservations. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/16 "2010-04-09T04:26:25Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I think Cuba will eventually become a US state. I’d call that less likely than Mexico, but theoretically possible. The island might kill Hawaii’s tourism business, but maybe they’d be eligible to enter two schools in an expanded SEC. University of Havana, and Castro State. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/17 "2010-04-09T06:00:39Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Statehood for PR or DC is possible, I guess. I don’t know where your other guesses for possible changes come from, and they don’t sound likely. Not DC. It would need a constitutional amendment What about California splitting? More likely than Texas doing it. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/18 "2010-04-09T06:03:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Those fifty stars? Replaced by a maple leaf. You watch. It’ll happen. I don’t salute Maple leaves I Burn them!(paraphrased from the show **Due South** )😃 :aside: I loved that show ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/19 "2010-04-09T06:15:46Z")
I can see Cuba becoming part of the US and a few New England states (ME, NH, VT esp) joining Canada if the time frame is long enough (100 years +) ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/20 "2010-04-09T06:49:05Z")
I remember the last time Quebec had some kind of snit and looked like it might go its own way, IIRC there was speculation in some fairly serious press (_Foreign Affairs_ or something similar) that some of the Atlantic provinces (that’d be cut off from Canada proper) might apply to the US for statehood. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478.md?page=2)